Tin Soldier Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Hi there, I'm not sure which forum to post this in, so I've taken a best guess I'll be starting large extension build next year which will involved installing a new external Oil Boiler connected to a hot water cylinder on the ground floor. unvented I believe, as there is nowhere to put a header tank? in the upstairs of the old house. The old part of the house is over two floors and will remain heated by radiators. the new extension will be underfloor heating. part of the extension is a large (to me) open plan area with a woodburner in it. now that I'm firming up the build, I'm wondering if there is any way to connect a woodburner to a cylinder, on the same floor level? Attached is a diagram of the current layout, there is hot water cylinder in a utlility room roughly 17m from the woodburner. the utility room is a single storey extension. I believe the proposed cylinder is unvented, which I guess it would need a pump to heat the radiators upstairs in the old part of the house. has anyone successfully been able to connect a woodburner/boiler stove on the same floor? .I have my doubts, but its worth a shot as I have access to an almost unlimited supply of firewood, I'd love to heat the radiators via woodburner as much as possible. I'm just in the process of engaging a builder, and would like to be able to speak to his plumber with some degree of understanding. any pointers, much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I think it's no on both counts. You should not connect an uncontrolable heat source to an unvented tank. That run would have to be pumped, No good again when the power goes off with an uncontrolable heat source, it would boil in the stove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 A typical setup mixing fossil and wood Aka : a royal pain in the arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 The neutraliser is the key part, which separates the differing potentials and sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 ok, so another question If I could have a header tank above the cylinder, but the cylinder still on the ground floor could the distance between the woodburner and cylinder be overcome, would it be feasible to heat from a woodburner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I'd reconsider the hot tank location for a number of reasons. 1. Usage - where are the bathrooms in relation to the cylinder ..? 2. Space - what space could be made available in the upstairs ..? Thermal stores can be made in pretty much any configuration as long as you plan how to get them into place. 3. Stove - is the stove a compromise ..? If you insulate well in the new area you will need to get a stove that puts more to water than the room otherwise you will overheat the room. 4. Boiler - if you have unlimited wood why not go with a wood boiler than oil ..? Needs a big thermal store but worth it if the source is "free" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 Thanks for answering 1. so post extension there will be one upstairs shower room and one downstairs bathroom to the left of the cylinder in the picture approx. 5 meters away two down stairs shower rooms to the right approximately 25m away 2. Space up stairs is very limited. typical Scottish two up two down (originially) so there's no loft and pitched ceilings, looking at the size of header tanks I could possibly accommodate in the upstairs shower room, definitely no room upstairs for a thermal store. 3. Woodburner is the focal point of the room. Its a single storey vaulted ceiling type affair so hopefully won't overpower us. we have one in the old part of the house already. 4. I do have a virtually unlimited wood source, with a large stockpile, family in the forestry and a small wood (mine) at the end of our plot but I don't want to be tied to it as my only heat source. I'd rather have oil and ideally the option to heat via wood, though I can accept this may not be possible. Given the height ceilings (circa5-6 meters) I did wonder if it was possible to fit the thermal store/cylinder in the cupboard in the living room with a header above (that's the stars on the picture) not the end of the world if its not possible, but it would have been great to use the wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Don't forget these will have to be galvanised steel headers, and quite big ones too. The overflow pipe will need to be 28mm copper minimum ( I'd do 35mm as when these things boil, these things BOIL ). Have you got an outbuilding / can otherwise accommodate a log gasification boiler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Oh, and with runs as far away as 25m, I'd be seriously considering a hot return loop for instant hot water at every outlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 might want to wait for the FHT stove to enter sale as it's be a handier linkup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 Any idea when fht may appear on the market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I'll put a man on it @Trw144......oi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trw144 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: I'll put a man on it @Trw144......oi! I have nt heard of the fht stove before but I m not in the swing of the stove market so much anymore. I ve just had a quick look at the website and I m a bit unsure how effective it would work in reality. However you can get stoves suitable for use with an unvented cylinder (although probably better suited to a larger accumulator/thermal store) - basically they have a quenching device in them so dissipate the heat in the event of a power cut and the pump switching off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 Hi trw thanks for writing have you any examples/websites of these stoves/thermal store with quenching device, sounds interesting but I'm not sure what to look out for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 We used to reside on Ebuild. I dug this exchange up from there, which goes into a lot of detail. http://www.ebuild.co.uk/topic/14379-thermal-store-advice-comments/page__hl__jaspi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trw144 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 19 hours ago, Tin Soldier said: Hi trw thanks for writing have you any examples/websites of these stoves/thermal store with quenching device, sounds interesting but I'm not sure what to look out for Most of the continental made stoves would be suitable as it's more of the way it's done over there. The consequence of this is that you will generally find the styles are more contemporary and the taller, rather than your traditional UK black box style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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