Norbert Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 I am new to this forum. I have joined because we are considering the drastic sounding step of demolishing and rebuilding our house. Work will not commence for over a year, however I am putting in a lot of effort at the moment to understand the options and possibilities that we have. The purpose of this post, probably the first of many, is to outline the overall high level plan that is evolving in my mind. It seems important to me to get these early big decisions correct as they may otherwise have a big negative impact down stream. So here is the situation. Why are we doing this? The house is part of an old stone built mill, next to a river. It was given a very unsympathetic conversion to 2 flats in the 1960’s. Any sign of its heritage was obliterated, it is now just a pebble dashed box. It is on a sloping site, ground floor 1.4 meters below ground at the front, level at the back. River 17 meters away and at normal levels 2 or more meters lower. It is cold, poorly insulated, draughty and damp in places (no DPC). It is wibbly wobbly, not a lot is level and square. While it would be possibly to retrofit internally to a high standard, and at a high cost, it is subject to flooding. Just once in the 40 years we have lived there to a depth of 15cm, 13 years ago. However the way things are it will likely happen again. There is a party wall to neighbouring property, that has cellar plus 2 floors on top, so does not have the same flooding problem. Proposed plan. Completely demolish the house. New footings and drainage, then block walls to 2 meters above current ground floor. 2 story timber frame house erected on this base. New house to be say 1.5 meters from the existing party wall, so fully detached. First floor I beams with insulation in between, possibly factory made floor cassettes. I see no point in a concrete beam floor as that will need insulation on top and would increase the overall height of the house. Metal web joists would introduce a lot of thermal bridging in the thermal envelope. House constructed of factory made and insulated SIPS. Second floor web joists to facilitate distribution of services and MVHR ducting. Vaulted ceiling on second floor. Overall height cellar plus perhaps 1.75 storeys. There would be a high standard of insulation and air tightness, possibly to passivhus standard. All modern technology to be included, ASHP to UFH, MVHR, 3G windows, PV on the roof, possibly battery storage etc. External cladding to be part render and part natural local stone to fit in locally, there should be plenty available from the demolition Cellar to be designed to be flood resistant, allowing water to flow in and out in the event of a flood. Cellar part open to the garden to provide a cool shady patio type room with garden type furniture and basic services, water, electricity at ceiling level etc. Any comments on this overall high level plan appreciated. Especially anything that might prevent me saying when all is complete “If only I had known then what I know now, I would have done X and Y instead” No need to dive into the details of anything specific right now, no doubt I will post on specific topics when I am working on them and need advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 Do it. Renovating is right PITA and it's so much harder to end up with the same performance finished product. You will also save the VAT with new build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 I wonder if you could rebuild with a modern house well insulated and airtight but with a nod back to the original stone mill? just coz someone f****d up the heritage doesn't mean you can't dredge up old photos and reimagine the old mill with a modern twist? might cost a lot in architect's fees though! 🤦♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 3 hours ago, Norbert said: mill, next to a river That's the trouble with Mills. Why does it flood? Is the mill stream not controllable?. My inclination is to keep the founds and some walling, and rebuild above. Regain some heritage and save lots of money. I wouldn't want to be digging new founds next to a river. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norbert Posted June 11, 2023 Author Share Posted June 11, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, saveasteading said: Why does it flood? Is the mill stream not controllable?. My inclination is to keep the founds and some walling, and rebuild above. Regain some heritage and save lots of money. I wouldn't want to be digging new founds next to a river. No mill stream ,everything removed in the '60s. It is just a pebble dashed boxy house 17 meters from a river at the bottom of the garden. My original idea was to partially demolish, put a ring beam on top, then a TF on that. However such an approach would not qualify for zero VAT, so it would actually cost a lot more. Believe me there is no heritage to be seen or saved, well apart from a few old mill wheels as garden ornaments, and they will be staying. Edited June 11, 2023 by Norbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norbert Posted June 11, 2023 Author Share Posted June 11, 2023 45 minutes ago, Thorfun said: I wonder if you could rebuild with a modern house well insulated and airtight but with a nod back to the original stone mill? The original stone mill is a lot more than a nod away as it is. We will just be aiming for a modern house well insulated and airtight, but with a nod to all the other local houses that are a mixture of local stone a white render 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmj1 Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 1 hour ago, saveasteading said: That's the trouble with Mills. Why does it flood? Is the mill stream not controllable?. My inclination is to keep the founds and some walling, and rebuild above. Regain some heritage and save lots of money. I wouldn't want to be digging new founds next to a river. I think you need to remove the foundations to save the vat with a new build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norbert Posted June 11, 2023 Author Share Posted June 11, 2023 1 hour ago, bmj1 said: I think you need to remove the foundations to save the vat with a new build Agreed, that is the plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 1 hour ago, bmj1 said: think you need to remove the foundations to save the vat with a new OK. Spend say £80,000 on demo and new founds and water conrol. Get how much back in VAT? 20% of £300,000? Utter guesses of course. Sometimes we get obsessed (me incl) on beating thr system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 3 hours ago, bmj1 said: I think you need to remove the foundations to save the vat with a new build No for zero VAT you just need to level the site to ground level, anything below ground (Inc founds and basements) can remain. Aiui. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 You might well need a supplementary strip of concrete.but I'm getting too far ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 Get an asbestos survey carried out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canski Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 16 hours ago, TonyT said: Get an asbestos survey carried out And a PRA bat survey. I think your planners may want it but check. I couldn't apply for planning until this was done. If they find anything you could be in for a long wait. Sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norbert Posted June 13, 2023 Author Share Posted June 13, 2023 On 12/06/2023 at 12:14, Canski said: And a PRA bat survey. I think your planners may want it Bat survey already scheduled for August. Had a new roof on 12 years ago, we did have bats so had to do it in the winter as it was a summer roost. Bat slates were put in so expecting a positive. However starting demolotion in winter/early spring fits OK, and happy to incorporate new bat accommodation in the build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canski Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 You had more luck than me. It looks like now I am in to my second season of bat surveys due to one lying, scheming, developer hating ecologist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 On 11/06/2023 at 18:16, joth said: No for zero VAT you just need to level the site to ground level, anything below ground (Inc founds and basements) can remain. Aiui. correct. unless HMRC now have below ground footings inspectors with X-ray vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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