Archer Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Hello Folks, advice needed from the wise heads on this forum... So I am in a bit of a quandary about the best way to proceed with the next bit of our project having secured planning permission. We are doing a small (but expensive / complex) extension which will house our newly located kitchen when its all complete. Our architect, who has been good, quoted in two parts - for planning drawings and then for the building control process and drawings. Cost of this second set of drawings is around £1500 excluding structural engineering calcs and BC fees. Separately we have been talking to providers of modular extensions - SIPS providers and garden room / TF providers. This appeals to us because we can get most of the construction work for the extension including foundations completed really quickly. They mostly include 10 year insurance backed warranties and can fully erect the extension in 2 weeks. We've got around 3 outline quotes from these sort of companies and they feel like they are in the right sort of ballpark... however a couple of them are not interested in doing the wider re-modelling works that we would need. They have priced off planning drawing which lack detail although the quotes returned have been quite comprehensive. So if were to proceed down this route as a straight design and build appointment we would need to look at getting at least one follow on contractor in; This work would include connecting the soil pipe to a neighbors property, demolishing a porch, knocking through an internal wall, moving a radiator, adding a roof light, finishing the floors and installing the kitchen. So quite a lot. The architect has currently allowed for brick and block construction - it looks like SIPS can give us around an extra 30 cm of room (on a 3 x 4m ext). He is happy to draw them up in SIPS but hasn't really worked with them before. His design work will almost certainly be more expensive than getting the contractor / supplier to undertake it. Money is really tight so... what I have been wrestling with is whether you get better value by pushing on with the architect - getting detailed drawings and a specification which lots of builders can then fully price off. Or alternatively, should we take a significant saving on design and push ahead with a modular company for the main extension and then separately get quotes from builders for the follow on work? Phew, that's a long email about design and build vs tendering fully detailed drawings. Help needed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 As this is an extension, you could avoid the need for building control drawings IF you can be satisfied that the builder will get the details right (and with SIPs the devil really is in fine detail, like making sure the design of the sole plate is free from thermal bridging, and that both skins of the SIPs panel are supported properly at the base). If you're happy that the builder can do things the right way, then go down the Building Notice route, which doesn't require detailed building control plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 Thanks, that's a good suggestion. I hadn't thought about a building notice. I do wonder a little bit if I'm making it harder than it needs to be by trying to save some design fees, but then the saving seems quite tempting as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 We built an extension to our previous 1930's house nearly doubling it's size under a building notice. The only complication it caused was some builders would not take the job on without a full detailed set of drawings, but we found one that was happy, and he did a good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 £1500 is steep for a set of BRegs drawings as it will only be a floor plan and sections with standard details for the wall / roof junction etc which will probably come from your SIPs provider anyway. I would go building notice and get a copy (download) the LABC technical manual for the details you need for stuff the suppliers don't provide. Private or council BCO..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) @Archer Remember the eternal money vs risk vs time pendulum. Just a small red flag .. Using a BN is fine but increases the risk of you getting poleaxed by circumstances or mistakes. You are are the one responsible so while you will save on your cash budget you will need to spend more on your time budget to keep the risks down by sweating the detail. I would suggest mentally increasing the time contingency and take a policy decision deliberately to resist the temptation to rush whenever it happens. Unless I suppose you shift the responsibility to the builder, who will then want more of your money to compensate him for the time he has to put in to manage the extra risk. I found a couple of nice cartoons. F Edited August 14, 2017 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) Approved Inspector vs LABC is something that I am still contemplating to be honest. Was hoping to receive a magical recommendation from either our architect or modular company so am still having those discussions now. The one that is worrying me a little bit is means of escape and fire - because we are essentially proposing a three storey flat with an open plan kitchen to the ground floor. We may need an auto-mist system and I am hoping there can be some lenience on things like inner rooms definitions, and the size of escape windows. It all feels quite chicken and egg - like you can't decide X until you understand Y - in our case the building control officer almost feels like they will be a member of the design team, but we need to resolve who is appointing them first. Anyway, thanks for the advice above - I feel like it is getting a little clearer in my mind now. We have one detailed quote in with two more builders round today. After I've met them we'll decide whether the extra help of the architect is worth paying for (I guess it comes down to cost and how much confidence we have in the builder). If we go design and build then I will put together a written specification myself and ask for a contract. Edited August 16, 2017 by Archer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 Also - Love the cartoons!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Archer said: Approved Inspector vs LABC is something that I am still contemplating to be honest. Was hoping to receive a magical recommendation from either our architect or modular company so am still having those discussions now. The one that is worrying me a little bit is means of escape and fire - because we are essentially proposing a three storey flat with an open plan kitchen to the ground floor. We may need an auto-mist system and I am hoping there can be some lenience on things like inner rooms definitions, and the size of escape windows. It all feels quite chicken and egg - like you can't decide X until you understand Y - in our case the building control officer almost feels like they will be a member of the design team, but we need to resolve who is appointing them first. @Archer There's nothing to stop you appointing your Approved Inspector now. Once appointed they will be able to give you their guidance on the issues that you are facing with the the 3 storey design and fire. Your architect should be able to recommend someone but the appointment of the BCO would normally be direct with you. Edit: don't worry about the fact that you don't have a full set of Building Regs drawings - appoint the Approved Inspector now and based on your existing set of drawings they will give you their ruling on the 3 storey fire escape issues. They will also give you a list of the other items of information that they will need from you, most of which the modular comapny will be able to provide. Edited August 16, 2017 by Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesgrandepotato Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Looking at what you are describing and the discussions I'd have those BR drawings done in a heartbeat(assuming you trust the architect) - there is complexity, challenges on window size and fire protection. Don't think of it as £1500 for a bit of paper - think of it as a design investment to resolve these issues at the earliest stage while its all still theoretical and easy! You are going to pay for that thought process (or the remediation of the lack of it) so you may as well nut it out early doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 FWIW, I did all of our building control, Full Plans submission myself. There's nothing that demanding in there, it just requires knowledge of the key building regulations (mainly Part M, things like the compliance of the access route from the parking are into the house and to the entrance floor WC). If you want to see what's involved in a full plans submission then all the documents I put together can be downloaded from this blog entry here: http://www.mayfly.eu/2013/09/part-fifteen-the-site-is-finally-ready/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 +1 Did my own, and because I did I can answer most of the questions that my (private) BCO asks and I've got a great working relationship with him. Where in the UK are you building @Archer..?? Like @Ian says, get the inspector onside now and it may save you money in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I was recommended this useful website below by an Architect friend and using it managed to do all my own Building Reg drawings + notes for a 2 storey extension and then get them approved by my local Building Control.department. BuildingRegs4Plans http://www.buildingregs4plans.co.uk/index.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 Thanks for all of the responses. I definitely haven't ruled out instructing our architect because there will be a number of drawings needed and I don't have the skills - question is whether I would trust a builder to do it... maybe. The modular extension / garden room companies actually have excellent in-house design teams but our project seems to be a little more complex than most are interested in. Getting a BCO and a structural engineer appointed seems to be the logical next steps and then I'll make a final decision on whether we can do it on notice or by a full plans application. Peter - we are building on the outskirts of London (£££...) Where is your approved inspector based? Jeremy - I am mega impressed with your construction details. Do you have a design background or were you using a software package to produce them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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