1st idea from architects - feedback welcomed!

[Beechgate]

Our architects have come back to us with their initial ideas for our plot. We still need some time to gather our own thoughts, but keen to get the insight from those on here. I've attached some key pages (site plan, floorplans, elevations etc.) and outlined the context and some of our initial thoughts below.

 

Context

We're a couple (+cocker spaniel) who hope to have children once we're moved into the new home. We want something that can be our family home for the next 20+ years (we feel too young to call it our forever home). Keen for a close to passive house, but we're not worried certifrication and are happy to make some compromises for things we want. Plan / hope is to use the MBC passive system, which should help nail the insulation and airtightness requirements up front.

 

A big potential hurdle is the fact that we have a bungalow on either side of us, and we are on a slope that exacerbates the potential to loom over our neighbour to the left. Almost every other house on the road is a detached or semi-detached 2-storey, but we need to be realistic about the bungalow issue. Our architect is of the opinion that a reasonable case for a 2-storey property can be made, but with some compromise likely as we go through planning.

 

They've started with a full 2-storey design and have gone big (as you'll see) because they want to go to pre-app with the council with the ability to offer concessions on overall width / height etc. The massing diagrams included make it look HUGE compared to immedaite neighbours (though in line with rest of the street) - though I'm not sure they are truly representative.  They have stuck to a shape / material pallette which should sit well in the street, to hopefully aid a planning app and not compound the size issue.

 

Some key things we wanted:

4 bedrooms

Home office space (we work from home multiple times per week)

Large utility / boot room (dog will sleep here + we would like a place to rinse him off)

Lots of solar PV

Open plan kitchen / dining / living

Separate tv / snug space

Secure storage space for bicycles / tools / motorbike (if SWMBO ever lets me buy another one!)

 

First thoughts (pros)

• Generally like the flow of the house & it has all of the rooms we want
• Lots of views into the garden
• Love the idea of a wildflower roof outside the bedroom window
• Great potential for indoor / outdoor living from the kitchen diner area and the patio outside
• Wide entrance hallway with void above will feel spacious
• Lots of south facing roof available for PV

 

First thoughts (cons)

• Looks very big - implications for planning success & build cost
• Quite a lot of glazing (need to sort PHPP modelling) given we're south facing at the front
• Lots of expensive touches (corner glazing, fully recessed sliding patio doors etc.) but we're quite to happy to 'value engineer' that out if required
• 2 middle bedrooms might be a little small
• Office space looks on the small side
• ASHP being situated so far from plant room seems odd / wrong
• Front porch doesnt do it for us
• Is upstairs hallway a bit narrow

 

Have seen the excellent feedback on other posts and would appreciate all thoughts!

 

Floor plans & elevations OPTION 1.pdf

[Bozza]

Hi just a few little observations and thoughts. 

 

I think the combo of the width & height may be an issue as you say.  It’s a nice house but I can see that being a problem in planning etc.  The solution may be that the width & height is reduced and you gain the volume from going back.  As such this will influence everything else design wise but let’s say you are allowed to this exact house just a few things to think about some of which you have identified.

 

yes best to have ASHP near plant room.

yes bedrooms 2/3 too small.

personally I think flat roofs are always a higher risk than pitched ones, and that why I avoided having any, but of course there will be plenty of successful flat roofs including amongst members houses.

 

with your master bedroom - commonly used pocket doors can be noisy and I’d avoid in a bedroom.  Also wary of walking through a dressing area into a bedroom.  Real life is not like instagram, unless you have loads of designer clothes beautifully staged colour coordinated clothes, or someone is OCD, I wouldn’t walk through the dressing room and into the bedroom.  

 

id be wary about the front windows for the main living area, for privacy reasons as well as overheating.

 

really love the way the living areas wrap round and having a quieter lounge area away from main kitchen area.

 

with a nice flat square plot you’ll end up with a great house there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave Jones]

not that great, corridors, no lounge, expensive flat roof box tacked on back.

 

Are you planning to spend £4-5k m2 to build it  as that is an expensive build.

 

it hasnt got anything with a wow factor. 

 

 

[Beechgate]

1 hour ago, Bozza said:

Hi just a few little observations and thoughts. 

 

I think the combo of the width & height may be an issue as you say.  It’s a nice house but I can see that being a problem in planning etc.  The solution may be that the width & height is reduced and you gain the volume from going back.  As such this will influence everything else design wise but let’s say you are allowed to this exact house just a few things to think about some of which you have identified.

 

yes best to have ASHP near plant room.

yes bedrooms 2/3 too small.

personally I think flat roofs are always a higher risk than pitched ones, and that why I avoided having any, but of course there will be plenty of successful flat roofs including amongst members houses.

 

with your master bedroom - commonly used pocket doors can be noisy and I’d avoid in a bedroom.  Also wary of walking through a dressing area into a bedroom.  Real life is not like instagram, unless you have loads of designer clothes beautifully staged colour coordinated clothes, or someone is OCD, I wouldn’t walk through the dressing room and into the bedroom.  

 

id be wary about the front windows for the main living area, for privacy reasons as well as overheating.

 

really love the way the living areas wrap round and having a quieter lounge area away from main kitchen area.

 

with a nice flat square plot you’ll end up with a great house there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Bozza, helpful thoughts.

 

I suspect we will have to reduce the size, but we're comfortable with that. I think the GIA works out at ~215m2 and we we went into this expecting sub 200 (which would still be twice the size of our current home!).

 

Point taken on the flat roof, though I think it could look great if done well.

 

Fully agreed on pocket doors. Architect has included lots of them and I'm not convinced, but haven't dwelt on that yet. Mostly focused on the layout/flow because most rooms look big enough to accomodate a normal door anyway.

 

Another great point on the dressing room. I like being as separate from the rest of the house as possible, plus it meant the bedroom got views to the rear garden, BUT it will inevitably be messy. Will have to give more thought..

 

We're keen on the wraparound, gives us a quiet corner of the house and makes a 'courtyard' in the back garden for patio etc.

 

 

[Beechgate]

27 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

not that great, corridors, no lounge, expensive flat roof box tacked on back.

 

There is a lounge, so don't follow this bit.

 

28 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

Are you planning to spend £4-5k m2 to build it  as that is an expensive build.

 

I certainly hope not! One of the things I'm sure BH will point out is what / where it's needlessly complex and expensive

[Bozza]

@Beechgate sent you a wee pm

[Beechgate]

8 minutes ago, Bozza said:

@Beechgate sent you a wee pm

Thank you
 

Taking a proper look once back from walking the above mentioned spaniel! 

[PNAmble]

rethink the the patio / glass doors,  not certain how MBC  Twin Wall will cope with the those being going into the wall opening - we looked at prices of a 6m 3g sliding door set .. quickly changed our minds when we saw the price.  If you are going MBC PH solution, there is no point in having a freezing cold pain of glass on the North so decent quality will be required (potentially even looking at CEROIII to get to a decent u-value and the West Facing Doors into the the SNUG will certainly keep it snug due to Solar Gain.

 

I recently (last month) costed a MBC PH solution for a two story house, flat roof, and their foundation approx 200m2 (GIA) - it's not a budget solution.  

[Beechgate]

32 minutes ago, PNAmble said:

rethink the the patio / glass doors,  not certain how MBC  Twin Wall will cope with the those being going into the wall opening - we looked at prices of a 6m 3g sliding door set .. quickly changed our minds when we saw the price.  If you are going MBC PH solution, there is no point in having a freezing cold pain of glass on the North so decent quality will be required (potentially even looking at CEROIII to get to a decent u-value and the West Facing Doors into the the SNUG will certainly keep it snug due to Solar Gain.

 

I recently (last month) costed a MBC PH solution for a two story house, flat roof, and their foundation approx 200m2 (GIA) - it's not a budget solution.  

100% agree on the recessed doors. We do want large patio doors to the garden, that open up for BBQs and summer etc., and it's something we're happy to compromise on purist passive house principles for. BUT I fully intend to have a non-recessed option, perhaps lift and slide ones

 

Also a good point on solar gain in the snug. I see that mostly as a place to watch films etc. so not bothered about it being connected to the garden. SWMBO likes the doors but I could imagine replacing with a window.

 

Yep MBC won't be cheap (haven't got my own quote yet as still want to evolve the design) but saw a comment on a thread recently that put their cost at ~550m2 for frame and ~730m2 inc. foundation. More detailed costings are still on my to do list.

[PNAmble]

15 minutes ago, Beechgate said:

550m2 for frame and ~730m2 inc. foundation. More detailed costings are still on my to do list.

We got quoted at 650 for the frame and 400 for the raft (based on 110m2 raft).   Their eco house option was 550m2 (plus same raft).  (We are going passiv standard but not certifying).  For foundation / soil issues we can’t go insulted raft as it happens so regrettably are moving away from MBC. 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by PNAmble

[The Reverend]

I think you will have a big problem with solar gain if you are going for near passive house (haus) standard. Shading options may look out of place so you will need to budget for heat reflecting glazing.

ASHP can work (check heat geeks video) with surprisingly little room but not sure about below ground level as this could be a cold/damp well which may reduce efficiency.

Lots of people on here with real world experience though.

 

[SteamyTea]

Not looked at your plans as I tend not to critique others designs.

But if you can get a lot of South facing PV in the roof, you can easily run summer cooling from it.

Going low energy is really not that hard, a sensible floor/roof area to wall/window ratio gets you most of the way there. Then get airtightness below 0.5 at 50Pa. Then insulated the largest, coldest (generally north and east) walls as much as you dare.

No one ever said that all walls have to be insulated the same amount.

Building regs are only the starting point, not the end point.

[MikeSharp01]

Looks good. Just one word of caution around the glass - glass corner window, we have one and although the window was not that expensive it was hard to source as not all the manufacturers do them and, the big AND, the cost of the structure to make it possible, two cantilevers or one very strong one and a beam depending, put about 15% on the cost of the frame, timber in our case - steel would be cheaper in this situation probably and the Structural Engineers costs. You need to hold the whole corner of the roof up but at least yours, like ours, is on the first floor.

[ETC]

3 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Looks good. Just one word of caution around the glass - glass corner window, we have one and although the window was not that expensive it was hard to source as not all the manufacturers do them and, the big AND, the cost of the structure to make it possible, two cantilevers or one very strong one and a beam depending, put about 15% on the cost of the frame, timber in our case - steel would be cheaper in this situation probably and the Structural Engineers costs. You need to hold the whole corner of the roof up but at least yours, like ours, is on the first floor.

It’ll probably end up a Keystone lintel and post.

 

What they’ve drawn is quite simple - post and off-set angles to carry the outside leaf.

[Russdl]

The skylight in the living room seems unnecessary. It looks like that room is planned for TV watching and you’ll probably be wanting it dark in there, the skylight will defeat that. There is already more than enough glazing if you want it light. 
 

I like the master suite (probably because ours is similar) in the fact that the en-suite can be used without entering the bedroom making it almost a second family bathroom. 
 

Rename the ‘dressing room’ to ‘walk through wardrobe’ and make sure there are wardrobe doors fitted you won’t have any problem with clutter. 
 

How much time do you envisage sitting on the bed looking out of the corner glazing? Will it actually be worth the expense? 
 

Most of the water usage will be on the west side of the house, I’d move the plant room to that side, combined with the utility room, to shorten pipe runs (and bin the pantry, what actually goes in there?)

 

if you go with MBC you really have to aim for a passive level of build as that is what they will start you off with. 

[ETC]

My proposal.

[ETC]

[SteamyTea]

Where is the PV?

[ETC]

The whole roof will be PV.

[Adsibob]

On 15/05/2023 at 13:29, Bozza said:

Hi just a few little observations and thoughts. 

 

I think the combo of the width & height may be an issue as you say.  It’s a nice house but I can see that being a problem in planning etc.  The solution may be that the width & height is reduced and you gain the volume from going back.  As such this will influence everything else design wise but let’s say you are allowed to this exact house just a few things to think about some of which you have identified.

 

yes best to have ASHP near plant room.

yes bedrooms 2/3 too small.

personally I think flat roofs are always a higher risk than pitched ones, and that why I avoided having any, but of course there will be plenty of successful flat roofs including amongst members houses.

 

with your master bedroom - commonly used pocket doors can be noisy and I’d avoid in a bedroom.  Also wary of walking through a dressing area into a bedroom.  Real life is not like instagram, unless you have loads of designer clothes beautifully staged colour coordinated clothes, or someone is OCD, I wouldn’t walk through the dressing room and into the bedroom.  

 

id be wary about the front windows for the main living area, for privacy reasons as well as overheating.

 

really love the way the living areas wrap round and having a quieter lounge area away from main kitchen area.

 

with a nice flat square plot you’ll end up with a great house there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with all of this. Just wanted to add that we have a green roof with lots of beautiful succulents and some flowers, but it is on a pitched roof. Do you don’t have to have a flat roof to get that aesthetic. Very achievable on a pitched roof too.

[Adsibob]

On 15/05/2023 at 15:18, Beechgate said:

 

 

We're keen on the wraparound, gives us a quiet corner of the house and makes a 'courtyard' in the back garden for patio etc.

 

 

Agree. If executed well, this is your wow factor.

[Adsibob]

On 15/05/2023 at 15:20, Beechgate said:

where it's needlessly complex and expensive

The corner window! That alone will be £4K plus.

[Adsibob]

On 15/05/2023 at 17:26, The Reverend said:

not sure about below ground level as this could be a cold/damp well which may reduce efficiency

If you want to have your heat source hidden in the ground, why not get a ground source heat pump?

[Dave Jones]

be surprised if you dont get pushback from planning as its massive compared to either side, sticks out like a sore thumb.

[Dave Jones]

8 hours ago, Adsibob said:

If you want to have your heat source hidden in the ground, why not get a ground source heat pump?

 

be good in the summer though for AC mode.