Dave Jones Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 Looking at some of the quotes we have had so far to design, supply and install ASHP and tanks to meet our requirements I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion they are all conmen. The figures I've been quoted range from £15k for an 8kw unit and tank (material cost £4k from city plumbing) to £35k for a 16kw and 2 tanks (material cost £8.5k from city plumbing). The plumber who have used for the last 3 builds i am very happy with, excellent quality of work, price and reliability. He is gas safe but hasn't crossed the void to ASHP installs. I am happy to be his guinea pig and have offered to buy the kit needed to install (gas ?). In return he has said he will fit at cost, day rate. with a cap of a weeks work which I am very happy with as its a win win for both of us. What kit is needed to gas up the new (R32?) units and what about manufacturer warranty ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesPa Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: What kit is needed to gas up the new (R32?) units and what about manufacturer warranty ? If it's a monobloc then it comes gassed up. Only splits need gassing. Manufacturers mostly seem to specify that the unit must be installed by one of their certified installers to get an extended warranty (>2-3 yrs) but this does differ from manufacturer to manufacturer. Edited April 3, 2023 by JamesPa Clarify 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 The one I watched being installed, the hardest part was getting it off the pallet and in position, just added water connections and plugged it in, hour later and the ufh was getting warm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 as said monbloc is pre gassed. You really would only use a monbloc ASHP, that keeps all the noisy stuff outside. You need the ASHP Flexible hoses 3 way diverter valve cylinder with 3m2 or bigger coil Heating system - this needs to be designed to run as low a temperature practical, so ideal is UFH. But big rads can work. If you have loads of zones you need a buffer or volumiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted April 3, 2023 Author Share Posted April 3, 2023 so pretty much plug and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 No real difference to a system boiler. Just need to make sure ASHP isn't oversized to much and flow temps are low. Oversize the cylinder as it stores at a lower temp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpener Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 3 hours ago, Dave Jones said: The plumber who have used for the last 3 builds i am very happy with, excellent quality of work, price and reliability. He is gas safe but hasn't crossed the void to ASHP installs. I am happy to be his guinea pig and have offered to buy the kit needed to install (gas ?). In return he has said he will fit at cost, day rate. with a cap of a weeks work which I am very happy with as its a win win for both of us. What kit is needed to gas up the new (R32?) units and what about manufacturer warranty ? 3 hours ago, JamesPa said: If it's a monobloc then it comes gassed up. Only splits need gassing. Manufacturers mostly seem to specify that the unit must be installed by one of their certified installers to get an extended warranty (>2-3 yrs) but this does differ from manufacturer to manufacturer. Sounds as though you have a relationship to treasure with this plumber. Maybe if instead of buying the F-Gas kit you helped with the training e.g. pay the course fee or travel or accomodation he would be williing to put in his own time to take the chosen manufacturer's course, then in addition to all the above you get the extra warranty and he gets a new skillset. So win win win win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 1 hour ago, sharpener said: Maybe if instead of buying the F-Gas kit Why do you need such a kit? You are not touching refrigerant gas - or shouldn't be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpener Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Dave Jones said: I am happy to be his guinea pig and have offered to buy the kit needed to install (gas ?). In return he has said he will fit at cost, day rate. with a cap of a weeks work which I am very happy with as its a win win for both of us. What kit is needed to gas up the new (R32?) units and what about manufacturer warranty ? Not me. OP's plumber, see OP above. As @JamesPa said he will not need it unless it is a split HP, hence my alternative suggestion. Edited April 3, 2023 by sharpener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Post and beam Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 As per the OP figures, i have been quoted £21k ( excluding the £5k cash back) for a Nibe 11 kw by Nu-heat. and not much less for a Grant from 2 different suppliers. As it happens i spoke to a guy at the NEC show last weekend on the NIBE stand. I told him i wanted to buy his products but would not pay £21k ish. When he asked who the quote was from he just gave me a very knowing smile. He then said he would get me a quote from someone else from their suppliers list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesPa Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, Post and beam said: As per the OP figures, i have been quoted £21k ( excluding the £5k cash back) for a Nibe 11 kw by Nu-heat. and not much less for a Grant from 2 different suppliers. As it happens i spoke to a guy at the NEC show last weekend on the NIBE stand. I told him i wanted to buy his products but would not pay £21k ish. When he asked who the quote was from he just gave me a very knowing smile. He then said he would get me a quote from someone else from their suppliers list. Similar prices here. £15-20K before the 5K BUS. No wonder BUS is not getting much take up. Not sure how this farce ends to be honest. Maybe Octopus will succeed in busting the cowboy's business model, but I doubt that they have the volume to do it alone. The fundamental problem is, I think, the requirement for MCS both for BUS (which is just about understandable) and for permitted development (which is scandalous). MCS expressly forbids separating the contracts for design and installation, otherwise it would be straightforward for a customer to 'buy' a design from someone who specialises just in design and get their favoured plumber to quote (ie the same model as architects/builders). Its almost like MCS and the rules around heat pumps are sponsored by the manufacturers of gas boilers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 I have done a few now, plumbing and wiring for my own, wiring only for a few others in conjunction with a plumber. I really don't know what installers are frightened of? From a blumbers point of view it is usually just like a system boiler and HW tank. It can be a little more complicated for the electrician as every one is different, which just means you have to read the manual and do what it says. 2 days each trade should do it normally. I suspect the issue is your standard plumber and electrician won't know how to size one. Easy on a new build house where you have had a full SAP design done giving you the heating requirement. I do agree it is time the over priced MCS cartel is shown for what it is and their near monopoly broken. The worst part is the government BUS grant is not benefitting the customer, but lining the pockets of the over priced installers. If you have a plumber and electrician willing to install it then just do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesPa Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 19 minutes ago, ProDave said: I suspect the issue is your standard plumber and electrician won't know how to size one. Easy on a new build house where you have had a full SAP design done giving you the heating requirement. I suspect that's spot on, hence my lament that it's not possible, within the MCS stranglehold, for the customer to separately contract design and installation. Can't see any prospect of change though. The advisors to govt will likely be mostly MCS and boiler manufacturers, both of which have a vested interest in the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 27 minutes ago, ProDave said: I do agree it is time the over priced MCS cartel is shown for what it is and their near monopoly broken. +1 My experience is designing/installing for cooling is the hardest part, not intrinsically difficult just unfamiliar to any UK plumber. But MCS doesn't even train for cooling (still sticks to the it's-not-legal mantra) so complete waste. Has anyone ever met a https://www.flexi-orb.com/ certified installer?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesPa Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 30 minutes ago, joth said: Has anyone ever met a https://www.flexi-orb.com/ certified installer?? They don't (yet?) do ashp, only pv. I emailed them just a few weeks ago to enquire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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