LSB Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 I'm having another look at my SE report and most of it I just about understand. But, can someone translate what this line means, there are lots like these throughout for each different area. This specific one is Beam B3 Below follows the details about SLS & ULS & span, all of which I understand EW = 46.1 Kn Fa = b = 23.0 Kn m = 27.6 Knm infinity (can't find the symbol here) = 9.6mm ZyyREQ = ..... IyyREQ = ....... This document is hand-written so I'm hoping I can understand his terrible writing. TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 EW is the load Fa = b means the load is uniformly supported at a & b (ie spread evenly) m is the bending moment of the steel (ie its material strength) ♾️(or similar..!) is the maximum deflection of the beam, usually in the centre @Gus Potter ..?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSB Posted March 28, 2023 Author Share Posted March 28, 2023 (edited) this is the whole of this bit oops Fa should be Fa = b - 9.5 kn Edited March 28, 2023 by LSB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 Your SE report is hand written? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSB Posted March 28, 2023 Author Share Posted March 28, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Kelvin said: Your SE report is hand written? yep, all the calculations there are various typed tables and the actual drawings are using CAD, but even there the stuff around about beams etc is all hand written It's also on graph paper so there are times when the lines are the paper are difficult to distinguish from the calcs. When I asked him about it he just patronised me and said that it doesn't matter because professionals will understand it. To be fair the BCO hasn't had any issues. Edited March 28, 2023 by LSB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 30 minutes ago, Kelvin said: Your SE report is hand written? Always a good sign. A beam calculation is everyday stuff and doesn't need a computer programme. 29 minutes ago, LSB said: When I asked him about it he just patronised me and said that it doesn't matter because professionals will understand it. To be fair the BCO hasn't had any issues. Good to be interested of course. I expect he could sit you down for a lesson if you paid for his time. The bco does not check calcs, or have the training. Trust the SE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 The document is written in terrible hand writing. At some point someone needs to read this and turn it into material and installation for the build. If you’re paying a professional the presented work should be clear and easy to read. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSB Posted March 28, 2023 Author Share Posted March 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Kelvin said: The document is written in terrible hand writing. At some point someone needs to read this and turn it into material and installation for the build. If you’re paying a professional the presented work should be clear and easy to read. unfortunately he wasn't prepared to change it I'm interested, but it's not essential for me, except it I don't understand how do I know if I'm being bull-shitted by "professionals" trying to sell me things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 38 minutes ago, LSB said: except it I don't understand how do I know if I'm being bull-shitted by "professionals" trying to sell me things I'm not a biologist or got a medical degree but I trust my doctor. Your SE did at least 3 years uni. If Chartered he did several more years and exams. What is the problem really and we can try to help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 I was just thinking my doctors writing is terrible but that doesn’t mean I question his diagnosis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 17 minutes ago, markc said: I was just thinking my doctors writing is terrible but that doesn’t mean I question his diagnosis I saved my mum from being given the wrong combination of drugs due to terrible hand writing and the general confusion between departments in hospitals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 hour ago, saveasteading said: I'm not a biologist or got a medical degree but I trust my doctor. Your SE did at least 3 years uni. If Chartered he did several more years and exams. What is the problem really and we can try to help? And my SE report had several errors on it. Blindly following what you’re told whether it’s the medical profession or the building profession is a folly in my opinion. The very best professionals should be happy to explain what/why/where/when/how. You’ve already questioned why render over lathe has been specified for my block wall for example. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSB Posted March 28, 2023 Author Share Posted March 28, 2023 It's got nothing to do with not trusting the SE, it's just that we've found some things on the SE drawings that we were never told about or asked about, such as the wind posts and pad stones in the corners for example. I'm not saying that they are not necessary, but it would have been good if they had explained to us what things were. I've found out more from this site than from the highly paid professionals. Using your medical analogy it's like the doctor handing you a prescription, but not telling you what it's for. The SE knew we are very hands on renovating the barn, it's not like we are just handing the whole lot over to some big building company. The SE we employed is a large company and I'm sure there are lots of highly qualified staff, but apart from the initial structural survey to get planning they've never been here or asked us anything. We are trying to create our final home and it's already very dear to us and I just want to understand and be involved in everything. I don't need to know what these calculations mean, I understand enough to get the right foundations / beam and so on, I just want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 Quite right too. Don’t stop asking. It’s your house and money. Sometimes it takes three attempts at asking why to get the answer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilly Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 My SE made a few oversights (excuse the pun) (not errors of calculation) and so I asked to see their boss for a site meeting. I think they thought I was going to kick off, but I simply wanted an explanation of how things work and reassurance the builders were on the right track. It was very helpful and I offered to pay, but they didn’t charge as a gesture of goodwill, no doubt. It is important to understand everything and possibly only you have the bigger picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 9 hours ago, Kelvin said: The very best professionals should be happy to explain what/why/where/when/how. I think they do, by definition. The thing on such a practical and hands on forum as this is that we are by default questioning and cost conscious. It is not necessarily in the typical Se or Architect skillset to be god teachers or to understand costs. Hence many Engineers who do, are engaged by contractors....and the rest do these on-off designs. 9 hours ago, Kelvin said: You’ve already questioned why render over lathe has been specified for my block wall for example. Yes that is what I do. It happens to be within my experience. Most consultants will propose details that they are comfortable with, or have assurances on. My suggestion isn't Engineering, but builder's detailing based on experience and knowing the cost of things. Your typical SE or Architect wouldn't know what things like this cost, and can't know everything. I suppose I am being defensive on this subject (to an unknown SE who may well be very good or not so good) because I have seen so much appalling work carried out by people who don't know how little they know, and seem to think that SE/Arch/BCO are trying to catch them out. I have had projects where the client decided to not use us, and do it themselves. Met by chance later (or to do the next project for them) they moan about fire barriers, foundation depths and all sorts that they have been made to do. Wind posts and pad-stones might be another example.....just how much is expected as free advice before even engaging a designer. On our project I challenged the SE, and we saved £15k. The daily contact resisted but the top boss agreed our proposal was acceptable, but they hadn't realised it was a commercial option. Fair enough. But I did many hours of general research, more site tests and technical research, and got tacit backup from a certain member on BH. Allow 30 hours a plane trip and 3 days board.....I worked for it. I allowed 10% for unknowns on our project, because conversions have surprises. And I am reasonably expert. On a new build of a project I understand backwards it would only be 3%. I can well understand that many on here have not allowed for contingencies, and it hurts when the unexpected is required and the costs rise. That is the big risk of self-build. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 On 28/03/2023 at 08:21, LSB said: I'm having another look at my SE report and most of it I just about understand. But, can someone translate what this line means, there are lots like these throughout for each different area. This specific one is Beam B3 Below follows the details about SLS & ULS & span, all of which I understand EW = 46.1 Kn Fa = b = 23.0 Kn m = 27.6 Knm infinity (can't find the symbol here) = 9.6mm ZyyREQ = ..... IyyREQ = ....... This document is hand-written so I'm hoping I can understand his terrible writing. TIA dont pay his bill. Ask him to be a bit more professional and send a typed copy. too many of these clowns taking the pi$$ for no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSB Posted March 29, 2023 Author Share Posted March 29, 2023 3 hours ago, Dave Jones said: dont pay his bill. Ask him to be a bit more professional and send a typed copy. too many of these clowns taking the pi$$ for no reason. I've had this report for some time, we have been delayed in starting the build so it was paid some time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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