Building Regulation Drawing Package

[LSB]

Help,

 

I sent the building regs drawing and SE plans to my private BCO.

He has come back with lots of additional info, most of which I know about, but he has asked about they below, I thought that was what we sent him and I'm loath to contact him and ask so can someone enlighten me and how this differs from all the other things I've sent him.

 

Please provide copies of the full building regulations drawing package and specifications.

[LSB]

Right, now I understand, but do I have to get the same architect to do these.

The one we use has just charged us £3,800 for what I thought were these drawings when they are just one page.

The SE charged us 5k to do the engineering drawings.

 

 

[ETC]

Seems strange. You sent him your building regs drawings and he’s asking for them? What did you give him? 

[nod]

5k sounds very high for SE

[LSB]

I sent the drawings that were provided by architect, he also wants all the specs of windows, doors, EV charging, water treatment etc.

All the things not done by architect.

 

SE was so expensive because they also did all the soil analysis and checking foundations of existing barn.

 

[Kelvin]

5k is a lot. Ours was £1300. Our architect fees (about the same as yours)  included all the M&E stuff and the SAP report. Our drawings included the planning application drawings, warrant drawings, and construction pack. The construction pack shows all the build up and junction details. 

[LSB]

I agree that our SE was expensive, but he did do the following

 

Application survey of barn for conversion.

Contamination survey

Soil survey

Structural plans.

 

I think the mistake we made is that we went with a big commercial SE business who do hospitals, schools etc and don't really cater for self builds.

 

It's similar with the architect

Drawing for planning, plus changes for the refusals

Then more drawings with changed layout (not dimensions) after he convinced us to try for knock down and rebuild, total failure with our LA, cost us 3k.

Then this BC drawings, which are not complete. already 3.8k

I'm waiting to talk to them on Monday about the rest.

 

What I didn't appreciate is that the BC wants lots of details about things like window specs, insulation rating, ventilation, heating, electrical usage, water usage, hot water usage, fire protection planning and fire engine turning circles, just for a start.  All things that I thought could be worked out whilst we built the walls.

 

It's also not clear about what regs we have to meet, we have planning in Nov 21, but only instructed BC (private) Nov last year after the change.  I'm trying to find out, but BC doesn't seem to know either.

 

We will plan for new ones anyway, but it would be good to have the fall-back if something doesn't go to plan.

 

We were discussing blocks with builders merchant this morning and he said 'these are cheaper', but may not meet new regs, whereas 'these are more expensive' but are 0.11.

He was also talking about using insulated blocks for the interior part of the cavity to get EPC, but then said that they're not strong enough to hang anything on.

 

And we don't seem any nearer to actually having a building.

 

I hadn't appreciated how much time is needed when we both work full-time.

 

HID knows about building, the physical side, but he's always been told what to do and not been involved in the planning and prelims.

 

 

 

[bgmill]

19 hours ago, Kelvin said:

5k is a lot. Ours was £1300. Our architect fees (about the same as yours)  included all the M&E stuff and the SAP report. Our drawings included the planning application drawings, warrant drawings, and construction pack. The construction pack shows all the build up and junction details. 

 

I feel thoroughly ripped off in that case. We paid our architect £5k up to PP and then a further £10k for building regs. It took them 11 months to get sign off from BC due to lots of errors and omissions, so we not-so-amicably parted ways before any detailed construction drawings. SE, soil survey, topo survey, M&E, SAP report, etc was all on top (another £5-6k).

 

I'm concerned about going to the build phase without any detailed drawings or an architect to oversee things but that's the reality of where we are now.

[Kelvin]

That’s a pity. Our drawings are very detailed plus I got everything in DWG format from the underbuild up to give to the setting out guy and the groundswork company to make sure everything is accurate. I did have to request this though as I didn’t get it as part of the construction pack but they didn’t charge me for it. 

[crispy_wafer]

Paid 1500 for our building regs drawings, 800 for the SE, 250 for SAP, 250 for a Bird/Bat and tree survey, all from 3rd parties.  We felt there was no need to complicate an L shaped Dormer.  Internal layout probably changed a few times during construction as we got a feel for the place, so super detailed drawings might have not have helped much...

[ETC]

I feel very sorry for those who feel that they have been ripped off and haven’t got value for money when appointing architects, architectural technicians and engineers.

 

When I see the fees being charged and the level of frustration and mistrust I almost feel that there is an opening for a co-operative not-for-profit organisation that can help self-builders get their projects off the ground at a relatively low cost.

 

I see that this forum is often a last resort for many self-builders who are trying to make sense of what they are going through in their self-build journey and in many cases the advice they receive can unfortunately often be too late.

[LSB]

6 minutes ago, ETC said:

I feel very sorry for those who feel that they have been ripped off and haven’t got value for money when appointing architects, architectural technicians and engineers.

 

When I see the fees being charged and the level of frustration and mistrust I almost feel that there is an opening for a co-operative not-for-profit organisation that can help self-builders get their projects off the ground at a relatively low cost.

 

I see that this forum is often a last resort for many self-builders who are trying to make sense of what they are going through in their self-build journey and in many cases the advice they receive can unfortunately often be too late.

that would have been really helpful for me

 

[Kelvin]

The problem is as a first timer you don’t know what you don’t know until you need it. Yesterday, for example, I found out there’s a whole other set of drawings for the timber kit company to construct the panels. First time it was ever mentioned and it was lucky they mentioned it as there was an error that I spotted. 

[ETC]

It’s unfortunate that when you pay for expert advice you often don’t get it - and to find out about needing timber frame panel drawings far into the process is very disappointing.

 

In my previous life I would have taken my clients step by step through the building process and would have tried to explain in simple terms how they get from a brief to a completed home. I would have felt that if a client did not understand what I was saying then I needed to explain the process in a different way or in simpler terms.

 

I reiterate what I have said in the past - I am a BCO and RA and if I can help with anything I will.

[Kelvin]

Fortunately, for me, they are included in the cost. What was annoying about it is that there was a fundamental error with them. They’d completely forgotten that we are taking the MVHR ducting up a void beside the stairs. They had already signed this off when I sent them my ducting layout design last year. Prior to this the void was actually a cupboard in the bedroom. I removed this and said we wanted an inset bookcase on the stair side and the ducting in the void on the other.
 

We are a year into this with them with the kit arriving in 5 weeks and I was unaware of this set of drawings. 
 

We had the same issue with the underbuild. They knew we were about to start the groundworks last month. The groundswork company asked me for the underbuild drawings in a CAD file. All I had was a PDF and even then it didn’t include everything. I thought it was a simple oversight but they had to draw them for me as their standard drawings are from the sole plate up because ‘the SE normally does that’. 

[LSB]

54 minutes ago, ETC said:

It’s unfortunate that when you pay for expert advice you often don’t get it - and to find out about needing timber frame panel drawings far into the process is very disappointing.

 

In my previous life I would have taken my clients step by step through the building process and would have tried to explain in simple terms how they get from a brief to a completed home. I would have felt that if a client did not understand what I was saying then I needed to explain the process in a different way or in simpler terms.

 

I reiterate what I have said in the past - I am a BCO and RA and if I can help with anything I will.

I had none of this, we spoke to a number of architects, but most of them said we had no chance.  I guess when the ones we used said we had a case then we jumped at him.

To start with he was very good and advised how to make our genuine agricultural building look more agricultural.  We had used as a horse shelter, nothing more, but that was enough to cause doubt.

The refusals were to do with the previous use (pigs) and contamination, nothing to do with equestrian which is not allowed.

 

But, at no point did he or anyone else in the company explain the whole process to use.

We only had an SE involved because it was one of the conditions of approval along with the contamination and bats.

 

It's 18 months since approval and no one has ever mentioned these extensive drawings.

 

I have seen these before when I was PM for a company having a new build and I was the liaison between company and contractors.

But, I made the silly mistake of assuming that they were because it was a commercial building and that a self-build would be simpler.

 

 

[ETC]

4 minutes ago, LSB said:

I had none of this, we spoke to a number of architects, but most of them said we had no chance.  I guess when the ones we used said we had a case then we jumped at him. Very bad that you didn’t have the process explained to you. Never something I would do.

 

Is he an architect? Refer to https://architects-register.org.uk
 

To start with he was very good and advised how to make our genuine agricultural building look more agricultural.  We had used as a horse shelter, nothing more, but that was enough to cause doubt.

The refusals were to do with the previous use (pigs) and contamination, nothing to do with equestrian which is not allowed.

 

But, at no point did he or anyone else in the company explain the whole process to use.

 

We only had an SE involved because it was one of the conditions of approval along with the contamination and bats.

 

I don’t understand why there was a condition on your planning approval that stipulated that you need a SE.

 

It's 18 months since approval and no one has ever mentioned these extensive drawings.

What have you appointed your agent to do? If it’s for the planning and building regulations drawings then this is very bad form. 

 

I have seen these before when I was PM for a company having a new build and I was the liaison between company and contractors.

 

But, I made the silly mistake of assuming that they were because it was a commercial building and that a self-build would be simpler.

 

4 minutes ago, LSB said:

 

 

 

[LSB]

2 minutes ago, ETC said:

 

2 minutes ago, ETC said:

 

 

They are quite a large architectural firm with lots of branches and did come recommended.  The others which I tried first were more local whereas these guys are the other side of the county.  And now the 1st one I spoke to has left I'm working with one who is over 300 miles away so won't be coming to site due to the expense.

 

 

2 minutes ago, ETC said:

 

 

 

[LSB]

After some tooing and frooing with the BCO and arch I have received some more details from the architect who insists that they were sent to me previously, not that I'd seen them.

 

I sent these to the BCO and that has answered some of his questions, but still need more.

 

He says that the MVHR needs to be fully designed before starting anything.

He is also talking about fire resistant cavity barriers, which surprised me on a block / block wall.

The Fire Protection looks like being quite a big issue, we are 120m from the nearest hydrant up a field slope which cannot be converted to a driveway, planning restriction.  BCO is saying that the Fire Appliance must be able to get within 90m of all of the dwelling and have a turning circle.  No problem in dry weather, but pretty tricky when wet.  We can increase turning space, but only by going into one of our fields which can't be included in the curtilage.

He wants all the hot water design.

He says we can only have 1 solid fuel stove when we were planning on 2, we have lots of trees and therefore wood so were planning on that as our main heating in cold weather.

He says that we are not proposing enough floor insulation, but I can't even find where I've said how much we are having.  

 

Windows - we can only have 1 pane per window which I don't understand and don't want, more discussion to follow.

 

But, he is happy with our specified U values, which is confusing when we haven't given him any details.

 

What is the understanding of others about what you have to provide up front, or during the build.

 

 

[andyj007]

can you share the construction notes / specifications? 

 

[Kelvin]

I don’t know how it generally works but we got this and provided this to planning:

 

Planning stage: planning drawings, drainage design including soakaway, house specification, architect statement on why this house, land survey, topo, drilling report for borehole, visibility splays

 

Warrant: more detailed drawings showing drainage in the house and electrical design (neither of which we are actually following), structural engineering drawings and notes including garage and retaining wall, more detailed drainage design and rainwater attenuation, detailed construction design and notes

 

Construction: detailed foundation underbuild drawings, timber kit construction drawings 

 

Separately to this I’ve done the MVHR layout drawings, electrical layout plus lights, all the ductwork for the house and garage although haven’t sent this to BCO. I have spoken to him though and we’ve agreed I’ll update/discuss any changes and submit a variation form at the end. 

 

 

[LSB]

And after lots of stress and calculations today we received the letter saying that we could start

 

Instead of yet another Plan, Check, Schedule we had Confirmation of Reasonable Compliance.

 

Now the real work begins and I can get updated quotes, but at least we can start making a real mess by digging trenches when it's been wet for weeks.

 

Next step is to double check everything before we order anything.

[Susie]

So happy for you. 
try to enjoy it all from now. 
have fun digging the trenches. 👍

[SelfbuildNovice]

Hi everyone, newbie here. We are embarking on a self build project - never done anything like this before and pretty much trying to get a handle on the various processes while dealing with info overwhelm. Would appreciate any help with looking at our building plans. We plan to build with ICF and possibly go for passive house certification. Our architect has no experience of either (wondering if this is a mistake), we all appear to be working it out as we go along. Any thoughts, guidance, etc would be very much appreciated

[LSB]

Hi Selfbuild, welcome, there is a forum specifically for newcomers which might be a better place to post this.

 

For my 2p worth, I wouldn't plan ICF without the architect on board as they need to be involved with your actual building control plans which will be different depending on the build method.

You may be able to get an SE (structural engineer) to take the architects drawings and do the SE drawings for ICF, but I don't really know.

The arch drawings are what you need for planning as planners are only interested in the final size /shape / look etc, not what it is constructed of.

 

This is where you would be best placed to post, on the front page of the forum.