Early layout plans for rural renovation… would love a critique :)

[fatgus]

Hi all

 

We’re at very early stages of planning a renovation (or potentially a demolish/rebuild, but we’d ideally prefer to keep what’s there, if it makes economic sense to do so).

 

I’ve spent many, many hours digesting this treasure trove of a forum and, after badgering from my better half, have got to the point of sharing our sketches to get some thoughts on our current layout.

 

I’ll try to provide some context below. A lot of it is quite personal and no doubt some will disagree with our rationale, but it’s mostly based on the way we currently live, or the way in which we would like to live, if our current house permitted.

 

The house has been empty for a few years. It’s habitable, but very shabby. 

 

It sits low in a valley, on a very level plot of around 2 acres of garden and woodland. Nearest neighbour is >200m away and out of sight. The only house we can see, through the trees, is almost 300m. 

 

The front of the house faces SSW and is around 30ft from a relatively quiet country lane. Between the lane and the house there are bushes and small trees which form a nice barrier/screen, but mean there are no notable views from the ground floor. We plan to recover a little of this space with a small enclosed/walled garden, just to take some advantage of the southerly aspect.

 

The views to the south from the first floor are across the valley to distant hills and there’s a particularly nice mountain view to the West, again only really from the first floor.

 

The gardens and woodland are mostly behind the house, to the north. This is the view we most want to exploit… several mature trees and large lawn (currently a mess) with the backdrop of the woodland. We’ll be adding shrubs, more trees, wildflower garden, fish pond, ‘bog-ish’ garden, orchard, natural swimming pond (planning permitting). 

 

We’re much more interesting in a relatively intimate view of greenery & wildlife than views of distant mountains. The northerly aspect isn’t ideal, but the light on that side of the house is very pleasant all through the year and that’s where we plan to have the most glazing. There’s a triangular patch of ground that sees little direct sunlight, but it’s ideal for the koi pond and an area of moisture tolerant/loving plants.

 

At the moment, we’re focusing on the internal layout, but we’re thinking along the lines of a barn-like appearance from the road. Metal roof, first floor either timber or metal clad. There are quite a few such barns in the area and it allows us to have a relatively straightforward (no doubt some would say boring) shape to the main house and roof.

 

We’ve tried to ensure there are plenty of views to the garden and to bring in a reasonable amount of southerly light, while utilising the existing openings as far as possible. 

 

We only need three bedrooms, but it’s quite a large house so it seems daft not to have a fourth. There are outbuildings that we hope to convert to an annexe, gym & workshop. The bedrooms will, as far as possible, look onto the garden at the rear. We don’t want south or west facing bedrooms.

 

Don’t particularly like open-plan living, but ‘broken’ plan is great… that’s, to a point, what we have now. Living area doors are never closed, so we decided not to bother with them in this place, on the ground floor anyway.

 

Really want a full height section in the house. And an indoor tree.

 

Love hanging chairs. We have one that went largely unused on our patio… brought it inside and it’s absolutely my favourite seat in the house  

 

We have two dogs and will be adding more, so a decent size utility/dog room is important, with shower.

 

Nice large kitchen/diner.

 

Somewhere to play table tennis, darts & pool  We currently have these in an outbuilding, but it’s rarely used unless the weather’s decent… so we figure we should bring it inside.

 

Want a walk-in pantry.

 

Need a dedicated home cinema.

 

We’re not aiming for Passive, but will invest in insulation, airtightness, MVHR, solar (nice big south-ish roof after all), battery storage, ashp etc.

 

Any questions, please fire away

 

 

 

[Big Jimbo]

This looks like it's going to be very modern looking. I like it. Can you post some elevations ?

[fatgus]

Thanks Big Jimbo. Gladly! Popping out for a few hours, but will post them this evening...

[fatgus]

Ok… so I much prefer sketching by hand (albeit on an ipad) but I’ve been playing around with a design app (ArchiTouch). The elevations are below… there may be some differences between these and the sketches, but it’s the same gist

 

Like I said above, we’re really trying to design it from inside to out, so haven’t given too much thought to the outside. We’re kind of leaning toward a metal roof, but not sure how to finish the first floor exterior. Presumably metal cladding would be lower maintenance, but I’m a real sucker for burnt timber. Had some black painted thermowood samples recently that were very nice and the price isn’t too bad. For the ground floor, we’ve assumed render but would consider any alternatives. There’s some stone on site, which we’d planned to use for the small walled garden… apparently the planners will like that 👍

 

 

 

[fatgus]

3d view of rear… 

[fatgus]

And front…

[ProDave]

Why 2 staircases?

 

Is that a tree in the entrance hall?

[saveasteading]

Metal cladding has been big in my career, but I wouldn't have it on my house walls. Untidy around windows and a bit too industrial.

On roof yes.

 

In fact I have done loads of buildings with metal walls and overclad in timber, usually stained. Probably not on my house though.

[fatgus]

43 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Why 2 staircases?

 

Is that a tree in the entrance hall?

To be honest, no particular reason other than convenience to avoid long walks   I suppose an extra exit path from the first floor isn’t a bad thing either?

 

Yes… it is a tree 👍

 

 

30 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Metal cladding has been big in my career, but I wouldn't have it on my house walls. Untidy around windows and a bit too industrial.

On roof yes.

 

In fact I have done loads of buildings with metal walls and overclad in timber, usually stained. Probably not on my house though.

Interesting. My main concern with the metal was that oil canning might make it look a bit shite. I hadn’t yet considered details around windows, so that’s really helpful 👍 Have you any experience of thermowood? I’ve had some douglas fir & larch samples too, but leaning toward the thermowood…

 

[ProDave]

13 minutes ago, fatgus said:

To be honest, no particular reason other than convenience to avoid long walks   I suppose an extra exit path from the first floor isn’t a bad thing either?

When thinking about a previous extension at one point we considered a loft conversion but the layout of the house would mean the stairs to the loft were not above the stairs to the first floor.  The planning officer got very suspicious "oh 2 staircases, that hints you might be planning to split it into 2 properties later"

[saveasteading]

9 minutes ago, fatgus said:

oil canning

Yes it is almost unavoidable unless it is composite cladding (foam core) or Sinsusoidal (agricultural) and I wouldn't have either. 

11 minutes ago, fatgus said:

thermowood

Yes. Haven't used it but have often considered it, then gone for normal timber  (price). In my experience pine cladding will last for decades if bought with good vacuum, preservative  treatment, then stained, and constructed carefully.

I would use thermawood rather than concrete with wood patterns on it, because I hate false patterns, esp if they repeat.

 

On our conversion we have used untreated, but selected, larch and it looks (and smells!) stunning. I would treat it to keep the redwood colour but have been outvoted and so it will go grey and slimy.

It is Scotlarch, which feels light enough to be thermawood but it isn't heat or vacuum treated.  I am assuming it is very well seasoned and then only selected panels are used. Quite expensive but not as much as the other proprietary options.

 

[fatgus]

36 minutes ago, ProDave said:

When thinking about a previous extension at one point we considered a loft conversion but the layout of the house would mean the stairs to the loft were not above the stairs to the first floor.  The planning officer got very suspicious "oh 2 staircases, that hints you might be planning to split it into 2 properties later"

Thanks Dave. That’s interesting… not something we’d considered as a potential concern for the planners. Maybe something to pre-empt in our design statement, when that time comes?

[saveasteading]

5 minutes ago, fatgus said:

something to pre-empt in our design statement,

Great idea. Make it easy for them.

[fatgus]

38 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Yes it is almost unavoidable unless it is composite cladding (foam core) or Sinsusoidal (agricultural) and I wouldn't have either. 

Yes. Haven't used it but have often considered it, then gone for normal timber  (price). In my experience pine cladding will last for decades if bought with good vacuum, preservative  treatment, then stained, and constructed carefully.

I would use thermawood rather than concrete with wood patterns on it, because I hate false patterns, esp if they repeat.

 

On our conversion we have used untreated, but selected, larch and it looks (and smells!) stunning. I would treat it to keep the redwood colour but have been outvoted and so it will go grey and slimy.

It is Scotlarch, which feels light enough to be thermawood but it isn't heat or vacuum treated.  I am assuming it is very well seasoned and then only selected panels are used. Quite expensive but not as much as the other proprietary options.

 

Yup… not really a fan of the sinusoidal, although it does lend itself to the barn aesthetic. The detailing around roof lights seems to be easy to mess up too. Some just look ‘wrong’. That said, since the pitch of the roof is low, any issues there may be less obvious.

 

The grey ageing (hadn’t noticed the slime!) is one of the reasons for preferring stained/burnt. There are a few cedar/larch clad houses in our area. Some have been around for a while and are still stunning, but others have weathered very badly and unevenly.

 

It’s very early days yet, but I’ll look more carefully at the timber options. I’m hopefully off to the NEC self build exhibition in March to gather more ideas 👍

 

 

[saveasteading]

3 minutes ago, fatgus said:

any issues there may be less obvious.

Aesthetically yes, but more chance of leaks.  Nothing should depend on lots of mastic.

 

4 minutes ago, fatgus said:

hadn’t noticed the slime!

perhaps I am exaggerating. Staining, and differential fading.  And if the wrong fixings are used, they run in purple.

 

I don't like this. I expect the architect still has the new timber image in their portfolio.

 

 

[fatgus]

5 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Aesthetically yes, but more chance of leaks.  Nothing should depend on lots of mastic.

 

perhaps I am exaggerating. Staining, and differential fading.  And if the wrong fixings are used, they run in purple.

 

I don't like this. I expect the architect still has the new timber image in their portfolio.

 

 

 

Nor me… that’s pretty grim. Wouldn’t be out of place on the set of Deadwood.
 

I built a man cave a few years ago… clad 2/3 in bog standard treated shed shiplap and the remainder in diy burnt pine boards. Really wish I’d done it all in the burnt stuff as it ages so much better.

 

 

 

[Iceverge]

Cool house. I like the tree. 

 

Can you get some morning sunlight into the kitchen? 

 

The lounge is very much an evening room but will get the best morning light.

 

I'd bin the step into the cinema room so you can use it as an accessible bedroom should the eventuality arrise.  

[fatgus]

1 hour ago, Iceverge said:

Cool house. I like the tree. 

 

Can you get some morning sunlight into the kitchen? 

 

The lounge is very much an evening room but will get the best morning light.

 

I'd bin the step into the cinema room so you can use it as an accessible bedroom should the eventuality arrise.  

 

Thanks 👍 I love the tree 😁

 

We've agonised over the kitchen. Originally we located it in the 'extension' that's now where we've got the utility room, so it would capture a bit more morning light. We worried it would be too detached from the rest of the house though, so made it more central, with a nice view of the garden, and added the 'morning room' next to the utility. That should get good morning sun, although there are a few hefty trees to the east of the plot that will cast a shadow regardless.

 

We kind of considered our morning routine when thinking of the layout. For example, I get up pretty early, make myself a coffee, let the dogs out and sit in my swing chair with said coffee and iPad (of late, mostly reading this forum 😁), sometimes for an hour or more, until someone else stirs. With the current layout, that works quite well... The utility is well placed and the 'morning room' swing chairs will get the sun through til mid/late morning most of the year.

 

That said, it would be nice to get more natural light into the core of the house... Really not sure how to achieve that though. Ideas welcome 🙂

 

The smaller lounge will get great light in the morning, but the 'games room' and the room off the kitchen (to the enclosed garden) should get it through the day. We figure the upstairs living room will have lovely evening sun, so that's where we'd be if we're chilling and not watching telly (for which the sun, based on experience of our current place, would just be really irritating, hence no TVs at the western side of the house).

 

The step into the cinema room is largely pointless, I agree. Originally we didn't have the corridor to that room (the room was larger) and the step was just to reduce the pitch of the stairs. When we added the corridor we kept the steps and continued the raised level into the cinema room so we could have a raised second sofa (more cinema-like). We then realised A) the room isn't really big enough for two sofas and B) we don't really need two sofas anyway.

 

The reasoning behind that corridor was partly to add a window and light, but mostly (and yes, I know this is quite sad) so I could have some classic movie posters on the way to the cinema 😁

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by fatgus
Typo!

[saveasteading]

7 hours ago, fatgus said:

that’s pretty grim.

I think it might be sweet chestnut, as it was trendy at the time, about 15 years ago?

 

Here is one I did, with standard but tanalised T & G, stained 2 colours. The light colour hardly changes the timber colour but freezes it from fading to grey. Most of the walls are horizontal cladding.

In full sun, the dark colour fades in 10 years. In shade it barely fades.

 

[fatgus]

6 hours ago, saveasteading said:

I think it might be sweet chestnut, as it was trendy at the time, about 15 years ago?

 

Here is one I did, with standard but tanalised T & G, stained 2 colours. The light colour hardly changes the timber colour but freezes it from fading to grey. Most of the walls are horizontal cladding.

In full sun, the dark colour fades in 10 years. In shade it barely fades.

 

👍👍👍

 

Do you have any recommendation for stain manufacturer? I’ve pretty much only used Osmo.

[IanR]

18 hours ago, fatgus said:

 

 

Hi @fatgus, and welcome.

 

I really like the simple form, the contrasting graphic and material choice, it gives it an agricultural aesthetic that should fit well it what I assume is a rural setting. Working against that though, imo, is the fenestrations. Windows and doors are a little too busy for me, especially as it contradicts the agricultural aesthetic. 

 

In part this has come from an equally busy interior layout. What's the overall sizes? It does appear that a little too much has been fitted into the available space. The 7 different sitting areas (outside of bedrooms) for instance, the additional laundry room on the 1st floor, the Shower in the Utility (for the dog(s)?) as well as  the WC & Shower on the utility, the narrow passage to the Cinema room etc. It's a shame this has then left only a small space for a compromised office and only one bedroom with en suite bath/shower room.

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, fatgus said:

recommendation for stain manufacturer? 

That was sadolin. Light oak, and dark palisander. I wouldn't use anything else, just because I know this works.

[fatgus]

13 minutes ago, IanR said:

 

 

Hi @fatgus, and welcome.

 

I really like the simple form, the contrasting graphic and material choice, it gives it an agricultural aesthetic that should fit well it what I assume is a rural setting. Working against that though, imo, is the fenestrations. Windows and doors are a little too busy for me, especially as it contradicts the agricultural aesthetic. 

 

In part this has come from an equally busy interior layout. What's the overall sizes? It does appear that a little too much has been fitted into the available space. The 7 different sitting areas (outside of bedrooms) for instance, the additional laundry room on the 1st floor, the Shower in the Utility (for the dog(s)?) as well as  the WC & Shower on the utility, the narrow passage to the Cinema room etc. It's a shame this has then left only a small space for a compromised office and only one bedroom with en suite bath/shower room.

I don’t disagree about the windows. We haven’t really spent much time considering the outside, it’s been a bit more about the internal layout. Some of the window positions are very deliberate, e.g. the one in the SE that allows a view through the whole house from the main entrance, the corner window in the first floor living room (for the great view) and the sliders in the room to the enclosed garden (for light). We’ve tried to keep the road facing windows small, which is quite easy as that’s where we’ve put the wet rooms. The main exception being the corner window in the first floor living room. The garden facing windows won’t ever be seen by anyone other than us… I don’t think they’d even be visible to ramblers on the hills behind the house, so we’re hoping the planners will be more amenable to more/larger windows on that side. That said, I’m not exactly happy with the layout… as you say, a bit much going on and it definitely needs more attention.

 

The house is quite large (>4000sq.ft). We don’t want a small number of huge rooms but prefer more, smaller spaces, as that means we can always have somewhere to go to get sunlight, a bit of peace & quiet, watch TV (2-4 people watching different things at the same time). We’re in a roughly 2000sq.ft bungalow at the moment, with two living rooms, xbox/tv room, and a small-ish area with my swing chair looking onto the garden. They all get used daily. We also have 500sq.ft-ish of man-cave and she-shed that are wonderful, but seldom used unless the weather’s good (traipsing in & out is a pain) so we’re bringing the contents of those into the house so they’re used more… pool/table tennis, bar, my wife’s reading place

 

The passage to the cinema room is pretty much a deliberate folly 😁 It’s 4ft wide (as are the other corridors) so not too narrow. We could add that to the cinema room, but it doesn’t really need to be larger than it is (18x15ft) and we don’t see the need for another room. At one point, that corridor widened by the window to create yet another sitting area, but we figured that was a step too far

 

We don’t really like en-suites. We weren’t going to have any at all, but thought it would make sense given the size of the house if we ever decide to sell.

 

I’m the only one that uses the study. In our current house it’s 8x9ft and perfectly big enough. The landing area designated for the study is 6.5x15ft… it’s got a nice high ceiling, right next to the void over the entrance hall with the tree. It’s actually one of the areas I’m most looking forward to using

 

I should really have put some dimensions on the drawings. Added some below…

 

I really appreciate all the comments by the way

 

 

 

 

 

[fatgus]

42 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

That was sadolin. Light oak, and dark palisander. I wouldn't use anything else, just because I know this works.

Okey dokey… thanks 😀👍👍

[Blooda]

Looks good - a couple of comments, probably reflecting others.

 

The "Dog shower" may restrict location of sockets in the "utility" as it may now become a "bathroom".

 

Not enough Ensuites for the size of house.

 

Rename the "Walk in wardrobe" to "dressing room" [unless the window is a route of escape] if you have a door to it, as it may be construed as a "room in a room", plant room, cine room, boot room may be construed the same, but may not as it is open plan. 

 

There is a almost a line of sight from the kitchen to the downstairs, should you forget to close the door when you turn your bike around 

 

Not enough Ensuites for the size of house.

Think as if you were going to sell it ?   what others would require. 

 

Also don't just think of your needs now, but in the near future [ie in 4 / 5 years time when it will be complete, and of course even later [you may curse that single up stair and down stair into the cinema room.