Loose Rak toilet seat

[dscoll]

Hi guys

I've got a Rak Gilberet toilet circa 2013, with a loose seat that needs tightening. It's a top access seat cover, nothing underneath the basin.

I've got 2 problems:

1) I can't get the toilet seat off - It's not quick release, and when I try to remove it ,it just slides left and right but not far enough so that it can be removed

2) I can't tighten (or loosen) the screw holding the seat to the basin as it just keeps turning, so even if i could get the seat off i don't think it would help.

please see attached photos for details.

Any suggestions welcome.

Regards

DS

[Tennentslager]

I think you want to press the grey plastic tube into the pan seat...is it on a spring? And lift the seat free if you can.

Then the screw, use a powered tool and unscrew but at the same time gently lever up the metal fitting so it's pulling as it turns.

Obviously protect the porcelain from scratching.

[ProDave]

The screw screws into an expanding plastic fitting that is inserted from the top so it is a blind fitting.  The screw and both the plastic fittings will need replacing, easy enough to buy replacements.

 

The hardest part will be extracting the old one if the screw is just spinning.  The tip above about applying upward pressure wile unscrewing the screw to get it to grip is a good one.

[dscoll]

15 hours ago, Tennentslager said:

I think you want to press the grey plastic tube into the pan seat...is it on a spring? And lift the seat free if you can.

Then the screw, use a powered tool and unscrew but at the same time gently lever up the metal fitting so it's pulling as it turns.

Obviously protect the porcelain from scratching.

Thanks for the reply. The grey plastic tube is not on a spring. It does go into the pan seat (on both sides) but not far enough to lift the seat free, it's about 1cm to long.

Edited February 24, 2023 by dscoll

[dscoll]

14 hours ago, ProDave said:

The screw screws into an expanding plastic fitting that is inserted from the top so it is a blind fitting.  The screw and both the plastic fittings will need replacing, easy enough to buy replacements.

 

The hardest part will be extracting the old one if the screw is just spinning.  The tip above about applying upward pressure wile unscrewing the screw to get it to grip is a good one.

Ok, thanks. Any idea how I get the seat off, as I can't get at the screw to apply  upward pressure with it in place?

[Tennentslager]

Hard to say on the forum...plan B is to cut it off using a multitool. Then replace.

I still think the seat can come off and maybe use a couple of G clamps to fully retract the housing.

??? It's not easy to offer suggestions without being there in person 

[Conor]

8 hours ago, dscoll said:

Thanks for the reply. The grey plastic tube is not on a spring. It does go into the pan seat (on both sides) but not far enough to lift the seat free, it's about 1cm to long.

Just pull it hard, it's how mine work, took me bloody ages to figure it out.

[dscoll]

17 hours ago, Conor said:

Just pull it hard, it's how mine work, took me bloody ages to figure it out.

Thanks Conor. I presume you mean pull upwards? I tried, but it didn't work. I also tried every other direction but still no good.

[Conor]

21 minutes ago, dscoll said:

Thanks Conor. I presume you mean pull upwards? I tried, but it didn't work. I also tried every other direction but still no good.

Yes, straight up, with a little side to side wiggle.

[dscoll]

20 hours ago, Tennentslager said:

Hard to say on the forum...plan B is to cut it off using a multitool. Then replace.

I still think the seat can come off and maybe use a couple of G clamps to fully retract the housing.

??? It's not easy to offer suggestions without being there in person 

Well I did think of cutting it off but that's a bit drastic and I hate the idea of conceding defeat to a chuffing toilet seat.

[dscoll]

2 hours ago, Conor said:

Yes, straight up, with a little side to side wiggle.

Pulled, wiggled, wiggled pulled, pulled and wiggled, swore a bit ,repeated previous steps, nothing.

[ProDave]

Not all of them do separate from the fixings.  But you have straight access to the screw head with the seat down so that is normally not necessary.  Your issue is the screw spins, so the threaded insert in the expanding plastic bit is spinning.  It is either brute force to pull it out destroying the expanding plastic bit, which you are replacing anyway, or try and apply upwards pressure between the flat metal plate and the pan, e.g with a flat screwdriver, to try and put pressure on the screw as you try and undo it.  the main thing is not to damage the pan.

 

This is the price you pay for concealed fittings, brilliant when the work, but a pain when they fail and you can't access the hidden bit that has failed.

[dscoll]

A bit more info. If you look at the pictures:

1) The horizontal metal rod is loosely attached to the top end of the vertical metal post ,so it looks like it should be quick release, but i've pushed, pulled, hammered, the joint moves but it doesn't separate.

2) The horizontal metal rod is solidly attached into the grey plastic tube

3) The bottom end of the vertical metal post goes into the round plate on the basin and the joint doesn't move

4) The grey plastic tube slides in and out of the toilet seat hinge, but not far enough to come out, it's about 1cm too long.

[dpmiller]

you might need to lever pretty hard to get the horizontal to pull from the vertical post the first time- they're generally held by an O-ring or two and often a split steel ring. This is sprung, and may have eaten into the hole in the horizontal bar somewhat, taking more force to get it to pop over that lip

[dscoll]

First a confession, I can get round the back, it's just very difficult as the toilet is in a confined space and i'm an idiot, apologies for the confusion.

Since I had no other options  I unscrewed the screw on the good side ,which i'd been avoiding doing, and got the lid off that way, but the wing nut fell down the back somewhere and it's lost, is this a comedy? , anyway this could easily be replaced.

I wedged something under plate on the bad side as suggested by TennentsLager but the screw won't budge and i'm beginning to damage the head, also it's really difficult to get round the back on that side as it's right next to the wall, so I think i'm going to have to cut the screw off (though i'm not sure how as it's very close to the plate) and buy a new quick release seat. Thanks for all your help

[ProDave]

Ah so it's not the blind top fitting expansion fitting used on back to wall pans where there is no rear access.

 

So if it is a screw and wing nut, you must get round the back to hold the wing nut still.

[Temp]

I had a similar problem on a different seat once. I ended up cutting off the screw heads. Then you can remove the metalwork and push the expanding bung into the pan. I used a disc cutter in a Dremel to remove the head but even then it wasn't easy as it was a countersunk screw head.

 

Might be able to lever up the metal enough to get a disc cutter or even a hacksaw blade under it to cut the body of the screw.

[HughF]

Toilet seat fixings are one of those things that have got worse as we’ve progressed forwards as a society.

 

The 50yr+ old bog and seat in my parents house is still perfect. I’ve lost track of the number of modern ones I’ve replaced when the ‘chrome’ fixings rot.

 

[dscoll]

17 hours ago, Temp said:

I had a similar problem on a different seat once. I ended up cutting off the screw heads. Then you can remove the metalwork and push the expanding bung into the pan. I used a disc cutter in a Dremel to remove the head but even then it wasn't easy as it was a countersunk screw head.

 

Might be able to lever up the metal enough to get a disc cutter or even a hacksaw blade under it to cut the body of the screw.

I don't have a dremel, so I tried my multitool and blunted the blade. I then tried to cut though the round metal base with tin snips , no chance with that.  I then managed to get a hacksaw under the round metal plate and after about 15 minutes I finally cut the head off the bolt. Thanks for the suggestion 

[dscoll]

2 hours ago, HughF said:

Toilet seat fixings are one of those things that have got worse as we’ve progressed forwards as a society.

 

The 50yr+ old bog and seat in my parents house is still perfect. I’ve lost track of the number of modern ones I’ve replaced when the ‘chrome’ fixings rot.

 

I'd certainly agree with that. When I finally got the seat off the quick release mechanism simply fell apart, but while it was attached to the toilet there was no way I could get it to work.

[dscoll]

I've finally worked out how the mechanism works. It isn't quick release, what holds the vertical metal post to the horizontal metal rod is a grub screw, picture attached, the reason it fell apart when I cut the head off the bolt  is the grub screw fell out. It's very difficult to see the size of the grub screw, I had already tried a 2.5mm allen key which was too small and a 3mm allen key was too big, so I thought it was riveted.  I've just been through my socket set and found that a size 10 star shaped fits. Why would anyone create a star shaped grub screw? Anyway that's it, thanks for all the help and for not slagging me off when I really deserved it.

[Temp]

So I'm sitting on the loo at 3am last night and there is a loud bang that woke the wife and my loo seat has broken. It's a Roper Rhodes solid oak seat and the second we have had break. They don't make them like they used to.