richo106 Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 Hi All My internal steels are going in next week and then it’s down to me to do the joists (posi) they are all on site ready to go. I have a beam that will have joists fitted to it both sides (see attached pic - beam highlighted red) I was planning to clamp 2 pieces of timber in the web using 12mm tapped rod so the joist hangers can be screwed to these. The UB has 14mm web holes at 600 centres. I was going to sink the washer/nut so it doesn’t affect the joist hangers etc. Please see attached drawing I have done to show my plan, does this look ok or is there a better method of doing this? Does the timber need to be perfect fit or would you leave a slight margin for error? Or would it be better to be perfect fit especially the depth? The joist hangers are MHE 380-75-152 Daft question…will any wood screws be ok to fit the hangers? Certain size required? Any advice/information greatly appreciated Many Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 The easiest way is to bolt a timber in the beam prior to lifting the steels in Then simply nail the hangers in It took me about two hours to do eight steels Very easy on the ground More tricky when in situ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 Just now, nod said: The easiest way is to bolt a timber in the beam prior to lifting the steels in Then simply nail the hangers in It took me about two hours to do eight steels Very easy on the ground More tricky when in situ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 Depending on the joist sizes you can often just shape the ends to fit in the steel with noggins between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richo106 Posted December 28, 2022 Author Share Posted December 28, 2022 Thank you @nod I was hoping to do them on the ground but the steel guy is bringing them to site and dropping them straight in unfortunately Does your timber fit perfectly flush to the front of the RSJ? Will a mm either way hurt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, richo106 said: Thank you @nod I was hoping to do them on the ground but the steel guy is bringing them to site and dropping them straight in unfortunately Does your timber fit perfectly flush to the front of the RSJ? Will a mm either way hurt? The two pictured did with the corners planned The deeper ones needed a rip of 10 mil ply I cut all mine ready and put a couple of bolts in each and lifted in place with the steel guy Then spent a couple of hours drilling the Timbers and bolting The steel guy will expect this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 Just now, nod said: The two pictured did with the corners planned The deeper ones needed a rip of 10 mil ply I cut all mine ready and put a couple of bolts in each and lifted in place with the steel guy Then spent a couple of hours drilling the Timbers and bolting The steel guy will expect this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 When I had questions about our POSIs, I rang up the manufacturer, and talked it through with their designer. To double check (because I knew less than nothing about the matter) I rang Cullens. They put me on to one of their design team and we had the issue sorted out straight away. It shouldn't surprise you to say that their advice was to exactly what @nod suggests. We chose German wood-to-steel screws. Worked like a charm. On the few screws that appeared not to 'cut' into the steel , we simply spat on the screw tip ; spit , it appears is a cutting agent (who knew that eh?) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 @nod, your sites always look so bleedin' neat ...... no rubbish, no M/T beer cans, no piles of [....] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miek Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 Fix the wood at ground level if you can, so much easier. Usually timber hangers are fixed with sheradised twist nails, not screws. If the wood is a bit proud of the steel it won't matter IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richo106 Posted December 28, 2022 Author Share Posted December 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Miek said: Fix the wood at ground level if you can, so much easier. Usually timber hangers are fixed with sheradised twist nails, not screws. If the wood is a bit proud of the steel it won't matter IMO. Looks good! Thanks for the comment regarding the twist nails rather than screws (I did not know this) This was my thinking regarding the wood, would rather be a little proud (mm or 2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 57 minutes ago, Mr Punter said: Depending on the joist sizes you can often just shape the ends to fit in the steel with noggins between. I have just re-read the OP and note these are Pozi joists, so shaping the ends ist verboten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richo106 Posted December 28, 2022 Author Share Posted December 28, 2022 16 minutes ago, Miek said: Fix the wood at ground level if you can, so much easier. Usually timber hangers are fixed with sheradised twist nails, not screws. If the wood is a bit proud of the steel it won't matter IMO. https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-square-twist-nails-sheradised-3-75-x-30mm-1kg-pack/12788?kpid=12788&ds_kid=92700048793290424&ds_rl=1249413&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxOnNw7Oc_AIV4I9oCR0f5A6bEAQYAiABEgLJXPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds Something like these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 41 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said: @nod, your sites always look so bleedin' neat ...... no rubbish, no M/T beer cans, no piles of [....] Thanks Ian We try 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miek Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 27 minutes ago, richo106 said: https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-square-twist-nails-sheradised-3-75-x-30mm-1kg-pack/12788?kpid=12788&ds_kid=92700048793290424&ds_rl=1249413&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxOnNw7Oc_AIV4I9oCR0f5A6bEAQYAiABEgLJXPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds Something like these? Yes that's them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miek Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 42 minutes ago, richo106 said: Thanks for the comment regarding the twist nails rather than screws (I did not know this Nails are stronger in shear than screws. If in doubt fill all the nail holes in the hangers is my advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richo106 Posted December 28, 2022 Author Share Posted December 28, 2022 20 minutes ago, Miek said: Nails are stronger in shear than screws. If in doubt fill all the nail holes in the hangers is my advice. Will do👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Miek said: ... Usually timber hangers are fixed with sheradised twist nails, not screws. ... I found that placing the nails before hammering them in easier if the nail is jammed into the tines of an (old) table fork before placing the nail in the hole in the hanger. Hammering the fork - and not my fingers - was less painful. Cheaper too: fewer plasters needed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canski Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 2 hours ago, nod said: Thanks Ian We try 😁 I agree, this is the way I like to work.... A tidy site is a happy site. But ... if you don't do it yourself it won't get done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 5 hours ago, nod said: 4 hours ago, ToughButterCup said: We chose German wood-to-steel screws. Or good swiss or good french. I would only buy branded screws from a specialist supplier. Make sure they are "heavy" spec for going into a beam rather than a purlin. Tell them the timber width and web thickness. (TBC btw what german manufacturer are you suggesting?) Nearly all good screws go in first time. With cheap ones the first is often only effectively a drill bit and discarded, so you need twice as many. The advantage of screws is speed and you can fix more if you feel inclined, and less precision required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Canski said: I agree, this is the way I like to work.... A tidy site is a happy site. But ... if you don't do it yourself it won't get done. So true Last summer I did the plastering and tiling on a self build not far from Ian She purchased a beautiful caravan with a store office and a toilet After eight weeks only the brave would use the toilet let alone use the office or tool store Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richo106 Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 Morning All I have just noticed on my drawing (and in bags i have now received) they have specified/sent 152mm high joist hangers for my 225mm posi joists Is this normal? I don't want the building inspector to pick this up once I have done it Many Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 Unusual as they normally have to be the full height of the joist to provide rotational support. Who has designed the floor ..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richo106 Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 7 minutes ago, PeterW said: Unusual as they normally have to be the full height of the joist to provide rotational support. Who has designed the floor ..?? Company called Pasquills, supplier of the posi joists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 Ok I would go back and confirm with them as they are normally pretty good and this may just be an oversight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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