YALANCT (Yet Another Loxone And Network Cabling Thread)

[SBMS]

Have been looking at loxone audio server options. I like the idea of using stereo extensions and pairing my own speakers to that - but how would one go about adding a subwoofer to the mix? Did you do this @Kelvin?

 

alternatively @Thorfun did you consider the new master/slave speakers that also have support for a ceiling sub?

 

has anyone used them/would recommend them over the stereo extensions?

[Thorfun]

3 hours ago, Kelvin said:

I used a mixture:

 

A single Focal ICW8 for the master bedroom

Single Bowers & Wilkins CCM362 for each of the other bedrooms and a pair of the same for the open plan area and 4 B&W CCM382s for the cinema room. 
 

All the speakers are either mounted inside a firehood or an acoustic box I made. This is important as without something the bass response can be quite poor. 
 

Of the two speaker types the Focal has a much better mounting system as it has a separate frame that the speaker mounts into. The B&W speakers have clamps that turn then tighten against the back of the plasterboard. It works fine it’s just that the separate frame of the Focal is a better design. 
 

My whole cabinet is powered from the Loxone PSU and backup. 
 

Tree Turbo is IP based and allows for much higher data throughput than tree. It can be used with the Loxone master/client speakers which allows it to transmit audio over much greater distances. The Audioserver connects to the Miniserver via the LAN. I’ve found the Audioserver a bit flaky with its network connection. I had no end of grief when it was first installed using a temporary spare router. The main issue being that if I rebooted everything it would often not reconnect to the internet or if it did connect I couldn’t access its Web-UI even though it was working. When I swapped out that router for my TP-Link router (when we moved) I couldn’t get it to connect at all so wiped it and recommissioned it which seemed to improve matters. However it would still occasionally lose connection if I re-started the network requiring a few re-boots to get it to connect. I’ve since replaced the TP-Link router with a Unifi Cloud Gateway Ultra and it’s never done it with that and I can always connect to its Web-UI so seems resolved. 

 

thanks. I'm looking at B&W speakers as well as my brother-in-law works for them and I'm trying to get a deal! for 1st floor speakers I can get access from the loft and add MDF backboxes but for the ground floor I'll need to cut a big square in the ceiling to add MDF backboxes and then patch up the repair. a pain but I didn't think of this early enough in the build when I was running the speaker cable.

 

interesting that you're only running a single speaker in the bedroom, I'm struggling to come to terms with running only a single speaker and not a stereo-in-a-single-speaker in the bathrooms! it's just too many channels and too high a cost to justify stereo in the bathrooms. but I think in the bedroom it's worth it.

 

I have a Unifi network so hopefully I won't have any issues with the audio server over that and I might simply run a 2.5mm cable from the PSUB to the network cabinet for reduced cost but I'll have a think about it.

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, joth said:

I'd imagine they're over specifying it as everyone does in audio. Gold plated connectors and all the rest of it. 

It'll work fine on 1mm if you have to, but if you're running the power 5m between cabinets to the audioserver I'd be inclined to  cable anyway, it's not going to make a measurable difference to the project cost.

yeah, exactly, 2.5mm flex is not exactly going to break the bank!

[Thorfun]

25 minutes ago, SBMS said:

alternatively @Thorfun did you consider the new master/slave speakers that also have support for a ceiling sub?

not looked at them tbh. I might do some reading tomorrow on the subject if I get bored at work.

[Kelvin]

The stereo effect of in ceiling speakers isn’t great so a single speaker works fine. 
 

The firehoods also work fine rather than fitting the boxes and you can fit them through the speaker hole. Will save you a lot of work. 
 

A subwoofer in the ceiling would need substantial bracing to stop vibrations so I wouldn’t do that. I’m not convinced it would be that good anyway but I’m biased as I have a chuffing big sub in the cinema room. We only use the Audioserver for background music, the odd party, podcasts and the radio mostly. That’s why I’m not bothered about stereo in most of the rooms. 

[Thorfun]

5 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

The firehoods also work fine rather than fitting the boxes and you can fit them through the speaker hole. Will save you a lot of work. 

thanks. I'll look in to these tomorrow.

 

6 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

The stereo effect of in ceiling speakers isn’t great so a single speaker works fine. 

I ran a cable to either side at the end of the double beds so I think that a stereo pair would be quite nice in that location.

[Thorfun]

3 hours ago, Kelvin said:

All the speakers are either mounted inside a firehood or an acoustic box I made

btw, don't suppose you can share the plans for the acoustic boxes? dimensions, materials etc? did you make it up as you went along or follow some plans obtained from the web?

[Kelvin]

Just as an aside. I was having a similar problem with the Zappi. It’s connected via WiFi and there’s no issue with the signal. Starlink will disconnect the internet occasionally through the night (software updates mostly but also for maintenance) I noticed that the Zappi wasn’t reconnecting with MyEnergi’s cloud servers after one of these Starlink offline events. It was still on the network as I could ping it. It required a reboot to fix it and very occasionally a power cycle. Frustratingly it doesn’t indicate there’s a problem at the charger. It still works but it breaks the Intelligent Go integration so my other half would plug her car in and it would look like everything was ok but it wouldn’t schedule a charge. However since swapping out the TP Link router this has also stopped happening. 

[Kelvin]

The speakers in the other bedrooms have never been used. My wife’s nieces stayed for several days recently and they both had Spotify. I told them about the speakers but they just listened to stuff on their phones or headphones. Same when my kids stay or friends. Bit annoying tbh 😂 

[Kelvin]

8 hours ago, Thorfun said:

btw, don't suppose you can share the plans for the acoustic boxes? dimensions, materials etc? did you make it up as you went along or follow some plans obtained from the web?

I just made it up as I went along. It’s just a box made out of MDF (because I had a full sheet of it) lined with acoustic foam. I screwed and glued it together then sealed all the joints. There’s no difference in sound between the boxes I made and the firehoods it’s why I used firehoods for all the others. 

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, Kelvin said:

I just made it up as I went along. It’s just a box made out of MDF (because I had a full sheet of it) lined with acoustic foam. I screwed and glued it together then sealed all the joints. There’s no difference in sound between the boxes I made and the firehoods it’s why I used firehoods for all the others. 

i'm wondering if i could 3D print some that fit through the cutout hole?

[Thorfun]

13 hours ago, SBMS said:

alternatively @Thorfun did you consider the new master/slave speakers that also have support for a ceiling sub?

looked in to this this morning and it's too late for me as i've already run the speaker cable for passive speakers. i might've considered it at first fix stage but i would probably have run speaker cable as well so as to not be limited to Loxone speakers. although the 1.5mm cable in the tree cable could also be used for audio i guess.

[joth]

34 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

looked in to this this morning and it's too late for me as i've already run the speaker cable for passive speakers. i might've considered it at first fix stage but i would probably have run speaker cable as well so as to not be limited to Loxone speakers. although the 1.5mm cable in the tree cable could also be used for audio i guess.

I believe you can mix and match and active (master/slave) sub into an otherwise passive audioserver speaker set.  As an added benefit it gives you a Bluetooth streaming receiver for the room the sub is in. (Which maybe more accessible/familiar for guests)

- at least, they said this works on the loxone partner training when Master/slave was being announced. (I pointed out at the time that this master/slave terminology was tabooed in USA at least in the 90s as non-PC, which is why USB made a late change to Host/Contoller terminology just before the 1.0 spec published. I guess Loxone either don't care for that market or have their own ideas where popular sentiment is headed )

 

 

Fwiw i like stereo pairs in any indoor room i care to have music in; I use bookshelf speakers in most rooms. Fancy Logan Martins with sub for the TV. A few concealed Monitor Audio wall mounts. No ceiling speakers as i just don't like the sound from them.

But also i just use AudioServer as an spdif source, and use an Anthem MDX-16 amp (install predates the new audio server, and the Anthem is a totally different level)

If installing now I'd probably put a ceiling speaker in hall and landing just for announcements, instead of the grim burglar alarm sounder 

 

Edited September 5 by joth

[SBMS]

49 minutes ago, joth said:

I believe you can mix and match and active (master/slave) sub into an otherwise passive audioserver speaker set.  As an added benefit it gives you a Bluetooth streaming receiver for the room the sub is in. (Which maybe more accessible/familiar for guests)

- at least, they said this works on the loxone partner training when Master/slave was being announced. (I pointed out at the time that this master/slave terminology was tabooed in USA at least in the 90s as non-PC, which is why USB made a late change to Host/Contoller terminology just before the 1.0 spec published. I guess Loxone either don't care for that market or have their own ideas where popular sentiment is headed )

 

 

Fwiw i like stereo pairs in any indoor room i care to have music in; I use bookshelf speakers in most rooms. Fancy Logan Martins with sub for the TV. A few concealed Monitor Audio wall mounts. No ceiling speakers as i just don't like the sound from them.

But also i just use AudioServer as an spdif source, and use an Anthem MDX-16 amp (install predates the new audio server, and the Anthem is a totally different level)

If installing now I'd probably put a ceiling speaker in hall and landing just for announcements, instead of the grim burglar alarm sounder 

 

Useful to know @joth I’ve got two existing Sonos amps and architectural speakers so I’m thinking of keeping those. It’s a shame the loxone can’t interrupt the Sonos for announcements or alarms or doorbells. 
 

Other rooms I might put the stereo extensions in and line in to a floor sub.

 

I might put a couple in hall and one in kitchen for the announcements / alarm?

[Kelvin]

4 hours ago, Thorfun said:

i'm wondering if i could 3D print some that fit through the cutout hole?

That just sounds like a lot of trial and error and wasted time unless you know a gynaecologist. Firehoods then it’s one and done. 

Edited September 5 by Kelvin