YALANCT (Yet Another Loxone And Network Cabling Thread)

[Thorfun]

On 23/11/2023 at 19:07, Dan F said:

You only need 1 per retractive switch (so two terminal blocks).  The 24v for each retractive switch can come off the same interconnected blocks as your tree runs if you want. Else,  1 interconnected for 24v + 2 non-interconnected if you want to keep these separate.

hey @Dan F. qq on the retractive switches please. how the **** do I wire these things up!? 🤣

 

I bought these (https://www.retrotouch.co.uk/crystal-pulse-retractive-switches/crystal-pg-retractivepulse-light-switch-1-gang-white.html) and the connectors at the back look like they're for mains voltage but they say that they can be used with Loxone.

 

 

I'm guessing the wire that goes to my digital input on the Miniserver (I'm using the brown twisted pair cable for these retractive switches) needs to go in to one of these connections but I'm not smart enough to work out which. 

 

you also mentioned the 24V for these. where does that connect to the switch?

[Thorfun]

3 hours ago, Thorfun said:

today I connected up my Whitewing DMX RGB dimmer to the DMX extension but in Loxone config when I do a DMX device search it doesn't find anything. should I be seeing something in config?

Found this https://www.loxone.com/enen/kb/setting-up-dmx-devices/ so will have a go tomorrow. 🤞

[Thorfun]

4 hours ago, Thorfun said:

hey @Dan F. qq on the retractive switches please. how the **** do I wire these things up!? 🤣

 

I bought these (https://www.retrotouch.co.uk/crystal-pulse-retractive-switches/crystal-pg-retractivepulse-light-switch-1-gang-white.html) and the connectors at the back look like they're for mains voltage but they say that they can be used with Loxone.

 

 

I'm guessing the wire that goes to my digital input on the Miniserver (I'm using the brown twisted pair cable for these retractive switches) needs to go in to one of these connections but I'm not smart enough to work out which. 

 

you also mentioned the 24V for these. where does that connect to the switch?

Ok. So after much deliberation I think I’ve got it. I take a 24V feed up to the retractive switch common connector and then from the L1 connector a wire to the digital input. 
 

I’ll try it tomorrow and see what happens!

[haythorn_1]

@Thorfun that is what I have done on my test circuit and it works.

 

There is a slight delay from pressing the switch to the light turning on, which is a bit annoying.

Edited April 1 by haythorn_1

[Thorfun]

2 hours ago, haythorn_1 said:

@Thorfun that is what I have done on my test circuit and it works.

 

There is a slight delay from pressing the switch to the light turning on, which is a bit annoying.

cool. I'm waiting a replacement 2A fuse to arrive before I can test it as I did stupid stuff yesterday and blew a fuse. at least I know they work.

[Thorfun]

2 hours ago, haythorn_1 said:

@Thorfun that is what I have done on my test circuit and it works.

 

There is a slight delay from pressing the switch to the light turning on, which is a bit annoying.

ultimately though a small delay won't bother me as I'm hoping that we'll never need these switches as the presence sensors should deal with the lights as we walk in to the rooms.

[Thorfun]

54 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

cool. I'm waiting a replacement 2A fuse to arrive before I can test it as I did stupid stuff yesterday and blew a fuse. at least I know they work.

Fuse replaced and retractive switch tested and working! 😊🥳

Edited April 1 by Thorfun
Spelling

[Thorfun]

21 hours ago, Thorfun said:

Found this https://www.loxone.com/enen/kb/setting-up-dmx-devices/ so will have a go tomorrow. 🤞

got a DMX RGBW actuator hooked up on config now too.

 

 

slowly getting there! can't wait for the sparky to come on Thursday and wire the cabinet to the CU so I can actually control some real lights!

[joth]

On 31/03/2024 at 21:33, Thorfun said:

Found this https://www.loxone.com/enen/kb/setting-up-dmx-devices/ so will have a go tomorrow. 🤞

In case you didn't figure it out, the Loxone DMX search only(?) works with Loxone DMX devices, which they don't make any more(?) so tldr don't bother trying to search for DMX devices.

It's super simple protocol though: set the base address on the device (via dip switches on all the Whitewing stuff) then create the output actuators in Loxone offset as appropriate from that pre-chosen base address.

I normally put the 24V PWM dimmer at base address 1 and then addresses 1-48 maps directly to all those channels. Put the Mains dimmer at base 49 so it will be addresses 49-64 inclusive. Etc.

 

[Thorfun]

8 hours ago, joth said:

I normally put the 24V PWM dimmer at base address 1 and then addresses 1-48 maps directly to all those channels. Put the Mains dimmer at base 49 so it will be addresses 49-64 inclusive. Etc.

that is exactly how I've done mine too! 🙂 can't wait until tomorrow when the sparky connects the cabinet to the CU.

[Thorfun]

I am in need of assistance again. I'm sure we've gone over this before and I will trawl through the thread to see but in case anyone is on and can answer this then please do.

 

I am confused once again as to how to wire up for the 24V LEDs. here's how I've wired up the WW DMX Dimmer and triple-deck Wagos (ignore the red cable going in to the Wago and the WW DMX Dimmer for now).

 

 

I have a Loxone Power Supply and Backup and so a single channel isn't enough to drive all those devices on the WW so I can't simply power the WW from the PSUB. my original plan was to use the PSUB outputs 3 - 7 for the 24V lights with one output per 'section' of terminal blocks that you can see separated by the orange end plates. so, PSUB output 3 to TB1, PSUB4 to TB8, PSUB5 to TB14 etc and then to jumper the 24V+ across the TBs in the section. and you can see that I have the jumper bars already installed to do this.

 

this, I get!

 

but I'm once again having a special moment as to what to do with the GND- from the PSUB outputs? the confusion I have is that some LEDs are just 24V+ & GND- but I also have CCT LED strips and RGBW strips and so some of the triple deck terminal blocks have a GND connected from the WW on the bottom tier.

 

can someone please tell me in a way that an idiot can understand what I do with the GND- from the PSU?

 

I will do some research and reading while I wait and see if anyone can help and I'm sorry once again for my confusion here. I thought I had everything under control until I came to try and connect the PSUB up today! 😢

 

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

Do you have a circuit diagram somewhere - it should be easy to work out where the GND goes from that!? In general - and I would not advise it without understanding the LV circuits, you can safely connect all the 24V grounds together PROVIDED you are not in need of isolation IE you may have an DC-DC converter in there somewhere that has isolation as a feature and the you would not want to bridge out that isolation by commoning the 24V GNDs. You should NOT directly (indirectly via failover switching systems and / or diodes might is possible) common the 24V positives from the various power supplies under any circumstances.

[joth]

In the PS+B all The grounds are commoned together, so it doesn't matter which one you use for what. (Unlike say Rcbo where you need to strictly match circuits to use L and N from the same breaker)

 

Obviously best practice is to keep your 24v circuits clean and match + and - connections as pairs in the PSU wherever you can, for maintainability

 

However for the rgbw dimmer I slightly broke this and connected the negative terminal of the dimmer to all three of the corresponding- terminals on the PSU. It'd work fine with only one connected, but may hit current for a single wire / terminal. Happily the rgbw negative terminal is huge so easy to stuff 3 lots of 1.5mm2 into it. (I think I used one large  ferrule for the whole lot)

If you do this keep all the black wires the exact same length to encourage current to spread across them all. If one is shorter it'll favour that one (lower resistance)

 

 

 

Edited April 4 by joth

[joth]

Ok in this one I only used 2x 1.5mm via a double entry ferule but you get the idea. The two black wires on the left route to two - terminals on the PS+B

 

[Thorfun]

12 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Do you have a circuit diagram somewhere - it should be easy to work out where the GND goes from that!? In general - and I would not advise it without understanding the LV circuits, you can safely connect all the 24V grounds together PROVIDED you are not in need of isolation IE you may have an DC-DC converter in there somewhere that has isolation as a feature and the you would not want to bridge out that isolation by commoning the 24V GNDs. You should NOT directly (indirectly via failover switching systems and / or diodes might is possible) common the 24V positives from the various power supplies under any circumstances.

thanks Mike. definitely not commoning the positives. one 24V+ to each 'set' of terminal blocks. 

 

thanks also for the GND information. in conjunction with @joth's answers I think I understand. I'll probably do what @joth did and take multiple grounds from the PSUB to the WW DMX Dimmer input.

[Thorfun]

31 minutes ago, joth said:

In the PS+B all The grounds are commoned together, so it doesn't matter which one you use for what. (Unlike say Rcbo where you need to strictly match circuits to use L and N from the same breaker)

 

Obviously best practice is to keep your 24v circuits clean and match + and - connections as pairs in the PSU wherever you can, for maintainability

 

However for the rgbw dimmer I slightly broke this and connected the negative terminal of the dimmer to all three of the corresponding- terminals on the PSU. It'd work fine with only one connected, but may hit current for a single wire / terminal. Happily the rgbw negative terminal is huge so easy to stuff 3 lots of 1.5mm2 into it. (I think I used one large  ferrule for the whole lot)

If you do this keep all the black wires the exact same length to encourage current to spread across them all. If one is shorter it'll favour that one (lower resistance)

 

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, joth said:

Ok in this one I only used 2x 1.5mm via a double entry ferule but you get the idea. The two black wires on the left route to two - terminals on the PS+B

 

fabulous! thank you so much. and you also made it idiot proof which is what I need. 🙂 

[Thorfun]

so, I have a powered up Loxone cabinet! I can't say it's fully working yet as I can't get the DMX stuff to work. not sure what I'm doing wrong tbh but I'll take a look at it and try and figure it out.

 

I also need to look at automating the lights as I've put a presence sensor in to each room but when I walk in nothing happens when I would've thought the lights should come on and when I test within config it shows the lights circuits being switched on but it doesn't work in real life. again, just need to look in to it as it's probably something I'm doing wrong.

 

but, for now, we have lights being switched on by the switches (Touch tree and retractive) and so things are definitely moving along! here's my cabinet now wired up to the consumer unit.

 

[Thorfun]

6 hours ago, joth said:

Ok in this one I only used 2x 1.5mm via a double entry ferule but you get the idea. The two black wires on the left route to two - terminals on the PS+B

btw, my sparky was standing next to me today as we worked on the cabinet and I talked to him about the Gnd- terminals and running multiple cables and he said why don't you just run 4 x Gnds as they'll all fit in the WW. so I did, as you might be able to see from the photo. so thanks again for the information, it really helped.

[joth]

Good job! You have light switches and some lights working - that deserves a beer.

 

Most likely thing for DMX is getting the signal pair + and - inverted. I do this every time regardless how methodically I follow it through. Also try just having one device on the DMX bus to start, plus the terminator resistor, then add more things once that one is working. Daisy chain, not star.

 

For the motion sensors, I can't remember which brand you used but it sounds like you're seeing the digital inputs trigger in live view when there's motion? Just the lights don't automatically come on? 

In the loxone app go to the lighting controller -> History and that tends to give a little explanation why it did or didn't do something. Most often it's the room is too bright (if you have the Br brightness input wired up) or something is asserting the DisP input which disables all presence-based lighting

 

[Thorfun]

On 03/04/2024 at 11:02, joth said:

It's super simple protocol though: set the base address on the device (via dip switches on all the Whitewing stuff) then create the output actuators in Loxone offset as appropriate from that pre-chosen base address.

I normally put the 24V PWM dimmer at base address 1 and then addresses 1-48 maps directly to all those channels. Put the Mains dimmer at base 49 so it will be addresses 49-64 inclusive. Etc.

 

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

I can't say it's fully working yet as I can't get the DMX stuff to work

 

I finally got the DMX mains dimmer to work. it seems that I hadn't pushed the "dmx out" connector in properly on the 24V DMX Dimmer. 🤦‍♂️

 

anyway, mains voltage dimming by DMX is now working! 🥳

 

next issue is getting the SSRs to be triggered by the 24V DMX dimmer but it's getting late and I'll leave that for tomorrow. but progress is good.

 

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

I also need to look at automating the lights as I've put a presence sensor in to each room but when I walk in nothing happens when I would've thought the lights should come on and when I test within config it shows the lights circuits being switched on but it doesn't work in real life. again, just need to look in to it as it's probably something I'm doing wrong.

wasn't anything I was doing wrong. the lux levels were too high and so the lights weren't coming on. another 🤦‍♂️ moment. as it's gotten darker the lights come on automatically now when I enter a room. this stuff is so cool.

[joth]

2 hours ago, Thorfun said:

wasn't anything I was doing wrong. the lux levels were too high and so the lights weren't coming on. another 🤦‍♂️ moment. as it's gotten darker the lights come on automatically now when I enter a room. this stuff is so cool

Right, that's what I was suspecting when I said " Most often it's the room is too bright (if you have the Br brightness input wired up)"

👍🏼

[Thorfun]

37 minutes ago, joth said:

Right, that's what I was suspecting when I said " Most often it's the room is too bright (if you have the Br brightness input wired up)"

👍🏼

indeed and although our posts were an hour apart they were crossed posts! I was out working on the problem with this thread open and I came back and updated it without refreshing so didn't see your post. I really appreciate your input and if I'd simply pressed refresh a lot sooner it would've saved me a lot of time! 🤣

[Thorfun]

morning @joth. I am in need of your assistance! I can't seem to get the blinds to work using the SSRs. I know the WW 24V DMX Dimmer is working as I have a 24V spot wired up to it and that turns on and off within Loxone. so I can only think I've wired them up wrong or the DMX Actuator in Config is different to when using for a light. are you able to shed any light on the subject please? I've tried smart and standard DMX actuators in Config and no difference.

[Thorfun]

so I'm definitely thinking it's a Loxone config issue as if I switch the DMX 24V dimmer to test mode I can see lights coming on on the SSRs as each channel is triggered and I can hear brief noises from the blind motors. so the power is getting to the blinds. 

 

then that leads me to conclude that it must be the control of the trigger, right? so must be my loxone config?

 

here's one example

 

 

and the DMX actuators

 

 

anyone have any clues please? really need to get the blinds working today.

[Thorfun]

6 hours ago, Thorfun said:

morning @joth. I am in need of your assistance! I can't seem to get the blinds to work using the SSRs. I know the WW 24V DMX Dimmer is working as I have a 24V spot wired up to it and that turns on and off within Loxone. so I can only think I've wired them up wrong or the DMX Actuator in Config is different to when using for a light. are you able to shed any light on the subject please? I've tried smart and standard DMX actuators in Config and no difference.

@joth I figured it out! I have working blinds now. I found this post https://groups.google.com/g/loxone-english/c/jpVNFGtFwEA/m/UIjNxTd7AAAJ which led me to set the Value 2 correction so that a value of 1 = 100 and things are working now. need to time the full open/full closed so I can update those values and then I can see about automating them with the intelligent room controller.