Radian Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 All the talk of batteries in the preceding posts makes me wonder how many people here have off-grid capable inverters to go with them? Hands up please! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 1 minute ago, Radian said: All the talk of batteries in the preceding posts makes me wonder how many people here have off-grid capable inverters to go with them? Hands up please! And wired in so the the house disconnected from the local grid. I think there is quite a bit of post purchase justification when it comes to batteries. They do not make sense at any level at the moment. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billt Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 3 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: Power restrictions, managed by increasing the cost of energy consumption by an order of magnitude when x number of units have been ( over ) consumed at set times per day, would be a little more rational imho, switching the juice off I think would be irrational, much for the reasons above. Human beings are selfish and fragile little things, so will just engineer consuming more before / directly after to compensate for the inconvenience…….thus negating any initiative to stop the problem in the first place. If you make something painfully expensive, beyond how expensive it already is deemed to be, then people will protect their purse accordingly. Rationing power could work well, but increasing cost/unit at a set time each day would of course would be difficult and unsympathetically indiscriminate, ( but simply switching it off is just barmy afaic )…….barmy, but deliciously simple and almost irreplaceably effective. Pricing that rises with consumption is probably good way to deal with the issue of the current high prices in order to not penalise the poor too much. Have subsidised low prices for the first 5kWhr,say, a day then increase the rate as usage increases and use the higher users to subsidise lower users. It may result in lower consumption overall too. Switching off power on a rolling basis has the advantage that it is actually possible and can be done in a reasonably fair way, to make sure the pain is shared out over most of the population. Time of use variable charging is not practical for most consumers at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billt Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Radian said: All the talk of batteries in the preceding posts makes me wonder how many people here have off-grid capable inverters to go with them? Hands up please! I started my system 9 years ago when the only usable option for a battery system was off grid, so that's what I have. Saving money and arbitraging grid power were not my motivations and it was very much not economically worthwhile. The irony is that if rates go up next April as they are predicted to rise it will turn out to be almost economically neutral. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, billt said: Have subsidised low prices for the first 5kWh I suspect, in reality, low users are already subsidised. If, with your 5 kWh example, this was implemented at say 10p/kWh, then I would increase my usage to use it all up as I currently only use 60% of that. I am not sure if "banking it for winter” would work either. I think we just need to reduce overall usage, wherever it is easiest/cheapest to do so, while increasing RE capacity, which is now the quickest and cheapest to deploy. Not really difficult, just needs the population to get behind the idea and realise that we would not be covering all the countryside in solar farms and wind turbines. All my life I have heard about 'concreting over the countryside", so why is there still so much left. Most of it still green, except the sandy bits if the Bristol Channel, which looks as large as London. Edited October 30, 2022 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Radian said: All the talk of batteries in the preceding posts makes me wonder how many people here have off-grid capable inverters to go with them? Hands up please! My hands up of course ! PW with gateway 2 ; should allow off grid . SE doesn’t support it in the U.K. - not sure what that does if the grid disappears…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, pocster said: My hands up of course ! PW with gateway 2 ; should allow off grid . SE doesn’t support it in the U.K. - not sure what that does if the grid disappears…. Actually the Tesla app now has a ‘ go off grid ‘ option to simulate that . Might try it tomorrow when SWMBO isn’t in https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/support/energy/powerwall/mobile-app/go-off-grid Edited October 30, 2022 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 13 minutes ago, pocster said: My hands up of course ! PW with gateway 2 ; should allow off grid . SE doesn’t support it in the U.K. - not sure what that does if the grid disappears…. That will be interesting. The SE inverter should perform a line impedance test and refuse to start if it thinks it's off grid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, Radian said: That will be interesting. The SE inverter should perform a line impedance test and refuse to start if it thinks it's off grid. I’m a bit scared to test it though !!! 🤣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 44 minutes ago, pocster said: Tesla app now has a ‘ go off grid ‘ option to simulate that . Might try it tomorrow when SWMBO isn’t in Do you have a switch between main fuse/meter and the consumer unit. Flick it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 30, 2022 Author Share Posted October 30, 2022 7 hours ago, pocster said: Actually the Tesla app now has a ‘ go off grid ‘ option to simulate that . Might try it tomorrow when SWMBO isn’t in https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/support/energy/powerwall/mobile-app/go-off-grid Robert Llewelyn goes into a bit of detail on the Fully Charged YT channel. IIRC, you’ll have a 5 - 7 second delay, then the Tesla will disconnect from grid and bring you online from the batteries. I can’t recall the max throughput but I expect if the house is drawing more, then a circuit breaker will trip to protect the BMS. Assume it’ll be down to you to go turn the hob off before switching back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 6 hours ago, SteamyTea said: Do you have a switch between main fuse/meter and the consumer unit. I'm jealous of those. I keep meaning to ask... My mother's house was built 8 years ago and has a two-pole isolator between the meter and CU. My house was built 25 years ago and doesn't. Neither does my rental. When the CU was changed in that, the sparky clipped out the seal and pulled the 100A fuse. I couldn't help thinking that was naughty. I'm guessing the DNO should have been involved? Furthermore, rather than have to respond each time a customer wants to have work like this done, might they volunteer to fit an isolator on request? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 30, 2022 Author Share Posted October 30, 2022 One here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 30, 2022 Author Share Posted October 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, Radian said: I'm jealous of those. I keep meaning to ask... My mother's house was built 8 years ago and has a two-pole isolator between the meter and CU. My house was built 25 years ago and doesn't. Neither does my rental. When the CU was changed in that, the sparky clipped out the seal and pulled the 100A fuse. I couldn't help thinking that was naughty. I'm guessing the DNO should have been involved? Furthermore, rather than have to respond each time a customer wants to have work like this done, might they volunteer to fit an isolator on request? You don’t need one? You just flick off the isolator in the CU to simulate a power out / work on the domestic electrical system. Needing to isolate the mains to the CU is something you’d be engaging a qualified sparky for, and they’d just snip / retain / reinstate ( so it looks intact ) and move on to the next job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 9 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Needing to isolate the mains to the CU is something you’d be engaging a qualified sparky for, and they’d just snip / retain / reinstate ( so it looks intact ) and move on to the next job. And they'd be breaking the law on my behalf? This is my point. My CU will need updating in the near future and I've been following discussions on electricianforum (some written by no less than the esteemed @Onoff himself). Everything points to it being dangerous and illegal practice to pull the main fuse unless carried out by the DNO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 19 minutes ago, Radian said: When the CU was changed in that, the sparky clipped out the seal and pulled the 100A fuse When the sparky we employed used to change consumer units, he just put on some of those orange 'grippy gloves' and had one of us stand close. The instruction was 'if I start shaking, kick me, it means I have been walloped'. Was Australian. Oddly enough, thinking back 20+ years, when the main fuse was changed from a 60A to an 100A one at my old house, the DNO boys did similar, but in the rain. When I did my Part P, the bloke teaching us said, 'if caught, argue that it is a health and safety matter'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 7 minutes ago, Radian said: And they'd be breaking the law on my behalf? This is my point. My CU will need updating in the near future and I've been following discussions on electricianforum (some written by no less than the esteemed @Onoff himself). Everything points to it being dangerous and illegal practice to pull the main fuse unless carried out by the DNO. Not necessarily, SSE allow electricians to pull their main fuse, but that was not often needed as SSE also used to fit meters with a built in isolator switch, these are now systematically being replaced with smart meters without such an isolator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, ProDave said: Not necessarily, SSE allow electricians to pull their main fuse, but that was not often needed as SSE also used to fit meters with a built in isolator switch, these are now systematically being replaced with smart meters without such an isolator. Looking at the datasheet for my smartmeter the internal isolator can be operated over the local optical interface. Seems a bit iffy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, ProDave said: SSE also used to fit meters with a built in isolator switch, When my meter was fitted they also fitted a separate isolator switch 👍 39 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: One here. I wish I could afford an EV or two and two power walls with switching gear 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 19 minutes ago, Radian said: And they'd be breaking the law on my behalf? This is my point. My CU will need updating in the near future and I've been following discussions on electricianforum (some written by no less than the esteemed @Onoff himself). Everything points to it being dangerous and illegal practice to pull the main fuse unless carried out by the DNO. Different DNOs have different rules. Since electricity was de-nationalised it can be a bit of a free for all. The DNOs use subbies, good and bad. Many don't even use numbered seals with the pliers allocated to a particular authorised person. If "you"were to do it make sure you have no loads on the cu when you pull it. Be aware, in fact be very aware, that if you touch those metal bits inside the the now open fuse carrier there is nothing between that and the substation. Aka you're a goner. In fact I would remove the fuse from the carrier temporarily and push the carrier back in. I believe it was me that coined the practice as having been done by "Amelie The Seal Fairy". Hypothetically, what "you" want is: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/WYREC2S.html? (A three phase version is available). + Probably some extra tails too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, Onoff said: If "you"were to do it make sure you have no loads on the cu when you pull it. 😇 I'm not that daft brave. No, I was just wondering what the chances were of having a nice DNO man come and put in the isolator for free. I suspect the answer is no (especially given the meters have a built-in isolator). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 Changing the subject a little. If your islanding PV is connected to a spare in your CU, and you flip the CU isolator, your circuits will be live won't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 7 minutes ago, Radian said: 😇 I'm not that daft brave. No, I was just wondering what the chances were of having a nice DNO man come and put in the isolator for free. I suspect the answer is no (especially given the meters have a built-in isolator). Back when I was bothered I noted huge disparities between suppliers/DNOs around here. I had my own done as I wanted the tails upgraded. As I had an upfront RCD I used that as an isolator and fitted an REC2 myself afterwards. A supplier did my parents foc when they changed the meter but interestingly wouldn't replace the cloth tails??? Another said there was a £50 charge but in the end there was no charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Also on the subject of pulling the main fuse. ONLY consider it if it is a modern all plastic fuse carrier and base and in good condition. There are a lot of old damaged main fuses still in use and some really lethal metal cased main fuses that even the DNO don't like pulling I would never touch those. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Old Bakelite fuses can be cracked and/or brittle. Pull them and they can disintegrate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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