Fence Advice please

[deemi786]

Hi there all, 

 

We live in a semi detached house at the end of our road. Opposite the front of the house is a small narrow road that follows the houses in a u shape, within the centre is a field that is maintained by the local housing association.

 

 

Our front garden is split up with an area of shingle to the far left , a patch of grass in the middle and tarmac as a driveway to the far right and to the side of the property.  We would now like to repurpose the side of the house and incorporate that into the  back garden (since the existing back garden is so small)  move the driveway over to the middle and leave the shingle area as is. See my very rudimentary drawings below.

 

 

 

We aim to dig up the tarmac area, plant grass and make that a part of the back garden with a shed on it. (6x8)  Anything shorter than a 6 foot  fence across and we really wouldnt feel safe leaving the kids to play by themselves in the front side garden. (New plans below)

 

My question is are 6 foot fence panels  permissable here as its a rear garden or does the fact it is near a public "highway" road and could be recognised as the front of the house mean it is not permissable and needs to be 3 foot?

 

I tried contacting planning permision in our local council but they dont take phone calls and the only advice is pay £££ to some recognised consultants they are outsourcing to help.

 

Any help would be appreciated or alternatives to fence panels (hedging etc) would be appreciated..

 

 

[markc]

I can’t see any problem with 6ft fence panels, no line of sight issues and the container at the end would be a bigger violation than any fence you erect. I would just get on with it.

[DevilDamo]

Not completely following your idea unless you have an existing and proposed layout?

 

The shed itself will require Planning. Because if that, submit a Full Planning application and ask for permission for what you want. You’re then not limited as to what is and is not allowed via Permitted Development. 

[deemi786]

Apologies it isnt clear, above is the proposed , below is the existing. Why would the shed require planning permission? 

 

There was actually a shed located just near where the blue car is parked below some time ago but has since been removed, the concrete base is still there and its on the title plans.

 

[Ferdinand]

TBH I'd say that is your front garden, not the back garden. And you are likely to need PP for the shed in front of the building line, unless perhaps you use one of those semi-sheds that is a storage locker 1-1.2m high.

 

Unfortunately it is likely to be determined by the building line, not by calling an enclosed front garden a "back garden". Sorry 😒.

 

If the shed has only just gone you may get away with whumping another one there immediately, and hope no one notices.

 

Otherwise imo you will need PP. except perhaps for the new driveway if you make it permeable to water (which makes it Permitted Development).

 

Or you just do it and see if anyone jumps on you, then go for a Retrospective PP.  But then you have a risk of not getting it and having to take it all away again. Since you will be spending a few thousand, I'd say go for PP.

 

It may be worth phoning up the Council and making an appointment to talk to a Planner at the front desk, where you may get some useful guidance as to the rules that will apply. Frame it as you being intimidated by the system, and take your before and after along.

 

It looks like an attractive scheme for your kids, so I'd say give it a try.

 

HTH.

F

[deemi786]

Hmmm...decisions, decisions, would putting a 6 foot hedge there be permisable instead?  The shed would still need PP though i suppose....

[Ferdinand]

2 minutes ago, deemi786 said:

Hmmm...decisions, decisions, would putting a 6 foot hedge there be permisable instead?  The shed would still need PP though i suppose....

 

It would not need PP since plants do not need PP, but I'm guessing that children growing up timescales mean it would perhaps not be 6ft high and solid in time.

 

A low fence (to say 1m, and perhaps see through to help your young hedge) with a hedge or reasonable evergreens is a very attractive answer, though, if you can make it work. That's what my mum did when I was three.

[deemi786]

Ive seen some 6 foot hedging that can be planted 0.75 apart and apparently makes an instant hedge, maybe a picket fence behind. Whats permissable then a 3/4 foot fence? 

 

So if i continued with the 6 foot panels and worse case was told to remove them, i could trim them to 3/4 foot and plant some hedging to go higher than 6 foot?

 

So many questions...

[Ferdinand]

19 minutes ago, deemi786 said:

Ive seen some 6 foot hedging that can be planted 0.75 apart and apparently makes an instant hedge, maybe a picket fence behind. Whats permissable then a 3/4 foot fence? 

 

So if i continued with the 6 foot panels and worse case was told to remove them, i could trim them to 3/4 foot and plant some hedging to go higher than 6 foot?

 

So many questions...

 

If you feel it is worth the expense, then it is worth it, though 2-3 feet apart staggered in rows 2ft apart would give you a better hedge.

 

My preference with that is to put in a wire mesh fence on the boundary beyond the hedge (my parents did one with a single wide plank above on edge paving stones) which then gets buried in the hedge. 

 

F

[deemi786]

its considerably more expensive then the fence panels though which is a pain.. 

 

so what is permissable 3/4 foot? Can those 6 foot panels be trimmed down if the chosen ones come out to inspect and suggest its not permissable?

[DevilDamo]

56 minutes ago, deemi786 said:

Why would the shed require planning permission?

 
Because outbuildings forward of the principal elevation are not PD, irrespective if there was a shed/outbuilding there before.

Edited October 18, 2022 by DevilDamo

[deemi786]

is that of any height?

[DevilDamo]

The height is irrelevant. An outbuilding is an outbuilding. But you will find people putting up stores, sheds in their front gardens without Planning. Technically, they’re in breach but Planning would need to take a view as to whether they would take action against it. It only needs a neighbour to report the potential unauthorised works. 

[deemi786]

in the rear garden it goes then...

[DevilDamo]

Just for reference.

[Ferdinand]

I stand corrected on Sheds in the front garden, though you could have eg a bin store as it is non-permanent. I think.

 

 

[deemi786]

i dont even think you can have them , i just googled it up and they are considered an outbuilding too.. madness

[pilgrim]

If your local council do not offer a pre application planning advice service then I would say you are better off paying a local planning consultant, you've already drawn up your plans so they shouldn't charge you too much for some guidance. It will potentially save you thousands. At least get a few quotes from local planning consultants and see the costs.

My local authority in suffolk were quite fussy about visibility splays for the driveway, (despite hardly any other houses on the road having driveways that would comply) moving your driveway across may class it as a new vehicular access which will have to comply with whatever the current regulations are and will impact on your fence plans. 

[joe90]

I think a lot depends on your neighbours, are they likely to complain?, I would plant a hedge with wire fencing in it to stop dogs or people pushing through before the hedge gets thick, keep watering and feeding it. Not an instant fix but cheaper than planning consultants and planning permissions. Monty Don (gardening guru) often says smaller plants/trees grow faster than large ones as they take longer to establish 🤷‍♂️.https://www.hedgesdirect.co.uk/?

Edited October 19, 2022 by joe90

[deemi786]

Neighbours are fine with it to be honest. Preferred fencing because of the instant security you get. The side leads to the back and we have had some burglaries in the area (who hasn't) recently so wanted piece of mind with the 6 foot panel. However maybe a chain link 3 foot fence or chicken wire behind the trees may do the job..

[deemi786]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I think we are going to go down the hedge route (leylandii) and put down a picket fence (3 foot just behind it) and hope no one tries their luck and move the shed behind the front of the house. Thanks for the all the help.

[Ferdinand]

I would STRONGLY recommend against Lleylandii. Those are thugs that end up 60-70ft high without constant hacking. It is a good arboretum tree, but a poor estate hedge.

 

There are far better options for coniferous hedges available.

 

There are some in the appropriate sections of this page:

https://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/types/hedges/choosing

 

But some BHers will have experience.

 

Also, ask at your local garden centre.

F

[joe90]

Well, I have had leylandi and as long as it is cut twice or maybe three times a year I found it ok, yes it’s the fastest growing but as said above there are many others to choose from.

Edited October 19, 2022 by joe90

[Temp]

21 hours ago, deemi786 said:

My question is are 6 foot fence panels  permissable here as its a rear garden or does the fact it is near a public "highway" road and could be recognised as the front of the house mean it is not permissable and needs to be 3 foot?

 

The fence along the edge of the road would have to be 1m to be permitted development.  The one running at 90 degrees to the road can be 6ft but the planners would probably prefer it to be 3ft to preserve the open aspect. 

[deemi786]

Thanks all, after looking at various options and researching hedges etc we have decided to go with a hedge (Leylandii) in the end with a 3 foot chain link fence behind it to protect us. Not as good as a 6 foot fence panel but hopefully in time the hedge will fill out and give us the security we need. We are keeping the fencing that's running at 90 degrees to 6 foot as that's permissable 

 

Also moving the shed to the back of the house.

 

Thank you for all the help and guidance.