Would you recommend using an Architect for extension?

[TryC]

Hi,

 

Would you recommend getting an architect to help with the planning of an extension? I believe it is not required and down to personal choice. But what does everyone think?

 

I was hoping they would help recommend reputable builders to conduct the works too when they produce drawings/designs.

 

We've been looking for over a year to get things done ourselves and nothing. The builders say the will quote, come to visit and quote, but they never turn up. 

 

On average, what is the cost of a rear & side extension (1 storey), stone material. Just to get a ballpark if possible. 

 

Thanks in advance!

[Radian]

I wouldn't always trust an architects recommendations for a builder. Better to ask around people you know who've had work done. The fact you say you want a wrap-around extension in stone makes it seem you already know how it should look. You might end up paying 3K-6K for someone to sketch it out on a CAD and clear some paperwork with the local authority. I'm a little unclear on what you intend to do about hiring a contractor - if you were to find a builder who would turn up, I would say produce some dimensioned drawings with the help of BH for the techie bits and discuss it with them. In my experience what archiects produce is of the broadest of brushstrokes that leave the complicated design work in the hands of others.

[ETC]

10 minutes ago, Radian said:

I wouldn't always trust an architects recommendations for a builder. Better to ask around people you know who've had work done. The fact you say you want a wrap-around extension in stone makes it seem you already know how it should look. You might end up paying 3K-6K for someone to sketch it out on a CAD and clear some paperwork with the local authority. I'm a little unclear on what you intend to do about hiring a contractor - if you were to find a builder who would turn up, I would say produce some dimensioned drawings with the help of BH for the techie bits and discuss it with them. In my experience what archiects produce is of the broadest of brushstrokes that leave the complicated design work in the hands of others.

I think you are being a bit disingenuous towards architects. Lol at “complicated design work”.

[TryC]

13 minutes ago, Radian said:

I wouldn't always trust an architects recommendations for a builder. Better to ask around people you know who've had work done. The fact you say you want a wrap-around extension in stone makes it seem you already know how it should look. You might end up paying 3K-6K for someone to sketch it out on a CAD and clear some paperwork with the local authority. I'm a little unclear on what you intend to do about hiring a contractor - if you were to find a builder who would turn up, I would say produce some dimensioned drawings with the help of BH for the techie bits and discuss it with them. In my experience what archiects produce is of the broadest of brushstrokes that leave the complicated design work in the hands of others.

Thanks @radian, if I could ask friends or people I know to recommend, I wouldn't be waiting over a year for work to be done. Either they don't know or just don't want to share the information. I know the wrap around should be in stone because the house is made from stone and I know you cannot extend a house using anything other than the material it is built from, so, yes, I know I cannot have a brick extension. Also, houses in the neighbourhood are having extensions in Stone. I cannot ask them who they used as I don't know them and most likely they bought the house with the extension done by the previous owners.

 

 

The architect didn't mention CAD drawings but more so to come measure up and produce drawings at nowhere near for the cost of £3 to £6k.

 

what is BH, please?

[Radian]

11 minutes ago, ETC said:

I think you are being a bit disingenuous towards architects. Lol at “complicated design work”.

Does the term " to be designed by others" strike a chord?

[Radian]

8 minutes ago, TryC said:

what is BH, please?

You are here.

[TryC]

1 minute ago, Radian said:

You are here.

ohh hahha. duh. 😊 thanks

[ETC]

5 minutes ago, Radian said:

Does the term " to be designed by others" strike a chord?

Nope.

[Ferdinand]

1 hour ago, TryC said:

I know the wrap around should be in stone because the house is made from stone and I know you cannot extend a house using anything other than the material it is built from, so, yes, I know I cannot have a brick extension. Also, houses in the neighbourhood are having extensions in Stone. I cannot ask them who they used as I don't know them and most likely they bought the house with the extension done by the previous owners.

 

 

(I'm assuming a fairly complex extension, since you mentioned the word "wraparound".)

 

No. These are *exactly*  the people you should be asking, since there's no existing relationship potentially to distort the perspective, or damage. And they have no bias in your favour, or bias against you, and they do not have a preconceived idea of you and so will not have a notion in their head about what they think you should probably want.

 

And what a fantastic way to meet all your new neighbours on a subject that you will all be interested in. They all have local knowledge, and weather knowledge, and sun direction knowledge, and can tell you what did not work, and you can avoid repeating any mistakes.

 

I'd suggest getting all their plans off the Council website, and studying them. Then coming up with your list of questions, based off your own definition of your own needs / requirements. Then do some chatting over the fence, or some door-knocking. People *love* talking about how clever they have been, and if they did not build it they love talking about how much better they *would* have done it.. Make sure to ask for what worked / what didn't / why they did what they did / is it warm / how are they planning to cope when kids have gone away / what was their best idea. Treat it as narrative market research.

 

If you do that you need to be careful not to unacceptably criticise others' houses, or gossip to neighbour X about what neighbour Y's extension is like and what you think of it; be a sponge and keep shtum. You also need to be sure that you manage the relationship with your immediate neighbours carefully around if they object to what you want to build; that can work well or can be a shark-infested custard. There are people on BH who argue "don't engage at all", and others like me who argue in favour of engagement with neighbours.

 

Then you need to end up in a position where you know enough to be an active client for your architect or architectural technician. Whether you need yourself, an A, or an AT, depends on how much you know your own mind, how complex the job is, and how much help you will need to avoid design or planning elephant traps - for example an A should protect you from being inefficient in use of space, and should guide you to make a space which is more inspirational to live in, whilst an AT will more need you to supply the vision.

 

Your first job is to get to a place where you have the nouse and confidence to make that determination.

 

We can help with a range of opinions, and there are a lot of projects described in the blogs that can broaden your views.

 

One point: on "stone extension on a stone house", there has been a perspective for the last 25 years or so that argues the validity of deliberately making it different in order not to blur the form of the original building - especially in listed building circles. That depends on the circs - if it is a big plot, or if it is a bit extra on the existing.

 

All the best, and remember to enjoy the process.

 

Ferdinand

 

[Adsibob]

7 hours ago, TryC said:

I know the wrap around should be in stone because the house is made from stone and I know you cannot extend a house using anything other than the material it is built from, so, yes, I know I cannot have a brick extension.

If this is your belief, then you desperately need an architect!!!

[TryC]

46 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

If this is your belief, then you desperately need an architect!!!

well, I've several articles I have read say the same and an architect has actually confirmed this too. I'm sure most of the houses around my area have extensions made with the same materials as the original house, no mix and matched material...unless they used a more cost efficient material that makes it look like stone? there is a house nearby that looks like a mix match and the extension does look cheaply done. You can see the light shining through the door frames.

Edited October 10, 2022 by TryC

[TryC]

6 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

 

(I'm assuming a fairly complex extension, since you mentioned the word "wraparound".)

 

No. These are *exactly*  the people you should be asking, since there's no existing relationship potentially to distort the perspective, or damage. And they have no bias in your favour, or bias against you, and they do not have a preconceived idea of you and so will not have a notion in their head about what they think you should probably want.

 

And what a fantastic way to meet all your new neighbours on a subject that you will all be interested in. They all have local knowledge, and weather knowledge, and sun direction knowledge, and can tell you what did not work, and you can avoid repeating any mistakes.

 

I'd suggest getting all their plans off the Council website, and studying them. Then coming up with your list of questions, based off your own definition of your own needs / requirements. Then do some chatting over the fence, or some door-knocking. People *love* talking about how clever they have been, and if they did not build it they love talking about how much better they *would* have done it.. Make sure to ask for what worked / what didn't / why they did what they did / is it warm / how are they planning to cope when kids have gone away / what was their best idea. Treat it as narrative market research.

 

If you do that you need to be careful not to unacceptably criticise others' houses, or gossip to neighbour X about what neighbour Y's extension is like and what you think of it; be a sponge and keep shtum. You also need to be sure that you manage the relationship with your immediate neighbours carefully around if they object to what you want to build; that can work well or can be a shark-infested custard. There are people on BH who argue "don't engage at all", and others like me who argue in favour of engagement with neighbours.

 

Then you need to end up in a position where you know enough to be an active client for your architect or architectural technician. Whether you need yourself, an A, or an AT, depends on how much you know your own mind, how complex the job is, and how much help you will need to avoid design or planning elephant traps - for example an A should protect you from being inefficient in use of space, and should guide you to make a space which is more inspirational to live in, whilst an AT will more need you to supply the vision.

 

Your first job is to get to a place where you have the nouse and confidence to make that determination.

 

We can help with a range of opinions, and there are a lot of projects described in the blogs that can broaden your views.

 

One point: on "stone extension on a stone house", there has been a perspective for the last 25 years or so that argues the validity of deliberately making it different in order not to blur the form of the original building - especially in listed building circles. That depends on the circs - if it is a big plot, or if it is a bit extra on the existing.

 

All the best, and remember to enjoy the process.

 

Ferdinand

 

Hi Ferdinand,

 

Thanks for your detailed reply!

 

The people living in the houses that have had extensions would not be the original owners that made the extensions choices, or would know which builders were used because the extensions pre-date them unfortunately. 

 

We have a builder living nearby and had in the past reached out for a quote, but they couldn't even be bothered calling back after speaking to them a couple of times and leaving messages. So, probably a good thing, can't imagine living near a tradesperson who if they messed up and you having to live near them!

 

Still in the early stages but engaging with architects now

[Adsibob]

29 minutes ago, TryC said:

well, I've several articles I have read say the same and an architect has actually confirmed this too. I'm sure most of the houses around my area have extensions made with the same materials as the original house, no mix and matched material...unless they used a more cost efficient material that makes it look like stone? there is a house nearby that looks like a mix match and the extension does look cheaply done. You can see the light shining through the door frames.

Of course the starting position is that you have to build any extension out of the same materials. But that can be rather boring, costly, inefficient and complicated. Ultimately, it is very difficult to match like for like exactly, and so in the last 25 years or so creative architects have found ways to persuade the local planners to deviate from the starting position. Particularly given your extension is a rear one, that won’t be seen from the front of the house (is that right?), you could argue that it won’t impact the “street scene” though different councils interpret that concept slightly differently.

 My Council were real sticklers for the rules and applied a stupidly expansive interpretation of Street scene, but still allowed our rear extension to be built with completely different materials to the rest of the house.  They made us match the materials for the first floor extension, but not for the full width ground floor extension.

So unless you want to build your extension out of stone, don’t.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Adsibob

[Jilly]

You will still need Building Control drawing (different from planning permission drawings) with varying amounts of detail, from an architects technician, which a builder will need to give you a price and is his guide to how to build the thing. The other option is a 'design and build' package from a builder with a team. You can also get online quantity surveyors estimate to get ballpark figures. Stone sounds expensive and maybe a bit speciaised? 

[TryC]

thanks @Jilly.

Yes, it's an older home and all the house in the neighbourhood were built with stone

[TryC]

9 hours ago, Adsibob said:

Of course the starting position is that you have to build any extension out of the same materials. But that can be rather boring, costly, inefficient and complicated. Ultimately, it is very difficult to match like for like exactly, and so in the last 25 years or so creative architects have found ways to persuade the local planners to deviate from the starting position. Particularly given your extension is a rear one, that won’t be seen from the front of the house (is that right?), you could argue that it won’t impact the “street scene” though different councils interpret that concept slightly differently.

 My Council were real sticklers for the rules and applied a stupidly expansive interpretation of Street scene, but still allowed our rear extension to be built with completely different materials to the rest of the house.  They made us match the materials for the first floor extension, but not for the full width ground floor extension.

So unless you want to build your extension out of stone, don’t.

thanks @adsibob.

 

Get what you're saying. I think maybe our council will be a stickler, the rear extensions around here are still made with stone (you can see them if you go to the park behind the houses). I know stone won't be cheap but what is these days!

 

 

[Thorfun]

20 minutes ago, TryC said:

thanks @adsibob.

 

Get what you're saying. I think maybe our council will be a stickler, the rear extensions around here are still made with stone (you can see them if you go to the park behind the houses). I know stone won't be cheap but what is these days!

 

 

but you don't actually know for a fact though, right? you're just guessing from other houses extensions? and, as you say, the other extensions were done before the owners bought the houses so how's to say that planning policies haven't changed in those years since?

 

you sound very defeatist without even seemingly testing the water.

[Radian]

27 minutes ago, TryC said:

I know stone won't be cheap but what is these days!

If you do go down this route, assuming not ashlar or anything really fancy, phone around and get prices from your nearest quarries - ask for price of cropped walling stone per 10 ton delivered. Might surprise you.

[TryC]

1 hour ago, Radian said:

If you do go down this route, assuming not ashlar or anything really fancy, phone around and get prices from your nearest quarries - ask for price of cropped walling stone per 10 ton delivered. Might surprise you.

thanks!

[TryC]

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

but you don't actually know for a fact though, right? you're just guessing from other houses extensions? and, as you say, the other extensions were done before the owners bought the houses so how's to say that planning policies haven't changed in those years since?

 

you sound very defeatist without even seemingly testing the water.

I have been given a extension guide, it says you cannot use material that is different from the house when extending. 

[Adsibob]

46 minutes ago, TryC said:

I have been given a extension guide, it says you cannot use material that is different from the house when extending. 

That sounds far too absolutist. Who published the “guide”? In any case such guides are not legally binding. Only the planning policy documents, planning law and case law interpreting them matter, as far as I know.

 Can you post a link to the guide please?

Edited October 11, 2022 by Adsibob

[TryC]

17 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

That sounds far too absolutist. Who published the “guide”? In any case such guides are not legally binding. Only the planning policy documents, planning law and case law interpreting them matter, as far as I know.

 Can you post a link to the guide please?

it was given to me by the architect 

[Adsibob]

Which is your local authority for planning purposes?