Water Main at Entrance to Site

[mike2016]

Hi was out digging a hole for a concrete fence post, setting the new boundary so I can go on to building on my site next year. I uncovered 2 x 4 inch black pipes stacked on top of each other about a meter away from the fire hydrant (heading that general direction). Judging from the thin sounding pipe wall and talking to the water utility they appear to be the water mains into the estate, and not marked on any service map! 

That would be ok except they are only 20cm below the surface. I'm worried about construction traffic cracking them. 

I could put a few steel plates over the area once I did another trial hole to map it out. For the driveway I'm wondering if I'll need some type of concrete reinforcement over that section to ensure they are properly protected later on? 

If anyone has had to deal with this let me know - curious what issues I should be aware of to avoid massive unexpected costs....Thanks!

Edited October 5, 2022 by mike2016

[ProDave]

BLACK is usually electricity?  Unless it is VERY old water pipe.

 

I would call both your local DNO and your local water company and ask them to identify if they are pipes or cables and then ask them to mark their exact course once identified.

 

Try listening either with a stethoscope or just a listening pole, if it's water you should hear some flow. 

[Mr Punter]

I have also known black pipe used for pumped drainage.  You did well not to damage it.  If it is in the road I would definitely want some reinforcement above.  Try to get the utility firm to do it to their spec and cost.

[saveasteading]

Some day I may tell you of the cable we didn't cut, and that it would have turned off a whole power station. 

[mike2016]

Thanks - sounds thin walled / hollow when I tap it. Local utility think it's water too. Good idea about the Stethoscope. Have logged a case to get the mapping updated. Just hope its not looping around the estate as then it could bisect my planned foundation dig and be too shallow to deal with! Might have to prep part of the new driveway in advance with some reinforcement. Be interesting to see where this ends up. In Ireland we have a Irish Water & the local Council and they are playing football with this so far! Great fun!! 

[Conor]

1 hour ago, mike2016 said:

Thanks - sounds thin walled / hollow when I tap it. Local utility think it's water too. Good idea about the Stethoscope. Have logged a case to get the mapping updated. Just hope its not looping around the estate as then it could bisect my planned foundation dig and be too shallow to deal with! Might have to prep part of the new driveway in advance with some reinforcement. Be interesting to see where this ends up. In Ireland we have a Irish Water & the local Council and they are playing football with this so far! Great fun!! 

Almost guarantee you it's not water. It'll be a telecoms or electric duct.

[ProDave]

1 minute ago, Conor said:

Almost guarantee you it's not water. It'll be a telecoms or electric duct.

Agree, it would not sound hollow or thin if it was full of water.

 

That's why I suggested call DNO get them to identify it.  I dug up a small black unknown cable on my site.  The DNO were happy to come and look at it, carefully open it up and determined it was a redundant old telecoms cable.  They would rather do that and be sure than risk damage to their network.

[mike2016]

Yep, no sound with the Stethoscope - a builder who dropped by said he thinks there might be a cable inside it - might be in use, or maybe not. I'll have to ring around the get a few views to see what this might be. One pipe might be rubbish but two together is definitely something, or was at some point!! Thanks. 

[ProDave]

Don't ring anybody other than the local DNO.

 

Care to post a map or plan showing where they are are and what direction they appear to run in? 

[mike2016]

Sure - best I can do with my drone...!! They could be heading off to the main road to the right, carrying old telephone/co-ax cable from years gone by.....

[Conor]

It's nothing to do with the hydrant, it's a washout hydrant at the end of the main will be coming from the LHS, not the RHS.

 

BTW, you might find that there may a be a way-leave in place for the strip of land along the road and you may not have the right to erect a fence.

[mike2016]

The fence is front to back - acting as a side boundary down the middle of what was the old driveway (it's changed since this pic was taken, sold the drone!). Thanks though - there is a wayleave for the sewer/wastewater shores at the back of the property which was good to discover.  

[mike2016]

Well, borescope revealed the pipes were empty of all other cables and no water, just cobwebs/debris. Rodded each end and the top pipe is 5 meters long, the bottom is 4.2. I suspect now the builder dumped them there and then concreted over the driveway when the estate was being built. The end house tends to get all the crap dumped in the gardens from what I'm told. Might still run a borescope down down one end of the shorter pipe but plan to sever/cut these at the boundary now so I'm free to dig them up on my new site side later. Should I plug an end cap into them or leave? I am pouring k-post so don't want that wasting into the pipes - so might need a strategy to allow me to move forward and secure the last concrete post into this hole. 

[Ferdinand]

On 07/10/2022 at 15:49, mike2016 said:

Sure - best I can do with my drone...!! They could be heading off to the main road to the right, carrying old telephone/co-ax cable from years gone by.....

 

OT. I'm interested in that road, and the mandatory * cycle lane.

 

That cycling lane looks dangerous, how wide is it? Given that the standard bus lane in ROI is 3m, I'd say it is perhaps 1m wide - not very adequate imo for a parent with their toddler in a trailer with 2.5-2.6m wide buses tearing past about 0.3m away.  

 

Is there a 30kph speed limit on that road?

 

Cheers

 

Ferdinand

 

(* Mandatory cycle lane in ROI is one that motor traffic is not allowed to enter - basically the same as UK, but ROI is better where parked vehicles can't block cycle lanes freely. Up until 2012-2015 plus a bit - because the reform was botched - people on bikes were also required to use even dangerous cycling facilities in ROI.)

[mike2016]

The cycle lane is fine for most bikes but scary when a bus passes by. There is a 50km/hr speed limit but it's more regularly 60-80 in reality. e-Scooters tend to use the footpath, joggers the cycle lane and anyone who wants to undertake, the bus lane. The big problem is a 3.5T limit was raised to 12.5T with school kids crossing from one side of the town to the other across the length of the road, makes it very scary, seen near misses but thankfully no impacts...yet! A wider cycle lane would be nicer but that's one of the few in the entire town! 

[mike2016]

Well, found a THIRD pipe behind the first one and cut it open as I was sure it was empty like the others...wrong!! Found a black cable, 3cm diameter. Rang Electricity Board Emergency line and they sent someone out who I'd hoped would confirm it's not electrical. Nope, it IS electrical, a three phase supply for the estate! Now, this wasn't live, it's off the bus bar but was put in for exactly one reason, if someone like me wanted to build a house at the end of the estate! There is a mains Box a few doors down and all the houses are fed directly from this box in a hedge beside the street. This spur was just in case a new house popped up!

So lesson learnt, expect surprises! 

The Board will look at what action to take to protect the cable before construction starts (re lay it deeper with tape over it or place a steel plate over the pipe) but at least I don't have to go digging to find the wire now! It's on my doorstep!