BCO 'signing off' my build: Q's.

[zoothorn]

47 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Put the light on, the dazzle will prevent them seeing the gap!!

 

Hmm. Thing is it's just above head high.. very low ceiling. Will try redoing the spring tmrw.

 

Ok that one's sorted pretty much. 
 

What I need to know, is this; back to the cill reveal blackened areas: you can see the moisture at the reveals has been bad enough to show my screw positions/ must have affected the plaster I put on to hide them..

 

If I Zinsser BIN paint the reveals, & white over in emulsion, I know I'll be able to cover the darkened patches ok. But the moisture will still be ongoing. Q: if say I bathroom-emulsion paint over the Zinsser stuff.. ie to form a washable surface I can wipe the mould off when it forms again.. will this be an effective barrier to this impossible moisture problem at the reveals? Or, will the moisture be getting to the reverse side of the plasterboard, as much as the visible surface-? 
 

I might be just letting the plasterboard rot behind without seeing it do so.
 

 

[TonyT]

Zinsser will seal everything so no need to use bathroom emulsion paints.

 

normal paint and increase the temp/ventilation.

[zoothorn]

6 minutes ago, ETC said:

Use your BCO for help and advice rather than re-doing the works before he/she comes - you might be surprised at the help you’d get. If it’s purely condensation and not damp coming up or through the wall a bit more ventilation might help - possibly trickle vents and this may be suggested during the inspection.

 

I'm afraid that I’d certainly question the existence of the mould if I saw it on site. I wouldn’t be too worried about the sagging plasterboard but I would be asking you to fix it and I would be asking you to prove that the recessed down lighters would not affect the fire performance of the floor.

 

Granny and sucking eggs - If the damp/mould issue is not addressed now it may cause problems later on.

Hi ETC, the damp/ mould problem simply cannot be addressed. Not here. It's something inherrant to us all here, we all moan about it. It causes a film of mould over -the whole- wall near where I sit in the kitchen ( forward wall, not behind my back, so clearly caused by my breath). I decorated it only 2 years ago. I have two small patches exactly at head high when lying in bed, each side of my bed on the wall. Weird but true. Again can only be my breath. And even around my bin in kitchen.. I lean continually to put rubbish in, as one does, & wall here is going black. 

 

Paper is weirdly damp feeling, not just in the house, but we all say it here/ a local repeated thing. Clothes always feel damp (even when on!). Drying clothes takes forever outside. The air in each room ( old ones, & the new one just built: both identical) when heated (eg stove) is a cloying heavy 'wet' feeling. Even in bed, leccy blanket on & you move your newly warm feet & the air feels undeniably cloying damp. It's utterly bizarre. But it is an absolute, unequivocal, undeniable fact. The first thing I look forward to when away for a few days, is it will feel dry. Normal. As you know it. As every other place I've lived, stayed, visited, everywhere just is. Nowhere, even NZ I've lived is like it. You get used to it. You have to. But it was a real shock when I moved here; not only because I knew I had no choice but put up with it, but also, I actually physically suffered for months from it: my lungs ached terribly, I was seriously concerned I actually couldn't live here solely due to this atmosphere/ 'climate' weird local thing. My body learned to deal with it & I was ok. But this took 3+ months. Again it's not local-usual-damp from this cottage. It is equally consistent in the new extention, as in the old part of the house. No different. It is equally consistent with all the houses here, few old ones, mostly new'ish bungalows : Ive been in them, the air feels the same, & we all moan " even dehumidifiers cannot touch it/ useless".

 

So the terrible condensation & mould as a result isn't something unfortunatly, unlike a usual situation, that can be addressed. It's always present here in this small welsh valley. You cannot irradicate it, nor even make any effect on it either.. I have no choice but live with it. 
 

Thanks, zh

[TonyT]

3 hours ago, saveasteading said:

With most lights being LED now, the heat is vastly reduced and we don't have hot heat sinks in the ceiling space.

 

The remaining risk is in there being anything highly flammable near the lights.  Rockwool isn't, and timber isn't likely to burst into flames. Paper very close though just might. Everything on its merits: don't take risks but neither waste money when not necessary.

But if the BCO requires a fire consultant report, then a few hoods would be pragmatic. They should not be expensive, but some are for no good reason.

Ahhh just done a search. My favourite fire protection company charges £2 each.. Envirograf. 

Depends where the fire compartment is, and if these are needed.

 

[zoothorn]

2 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Zinsser will seal everything so no need to use bathroom emulsion paints.

 

normal paint and increase the temp/ventilation.

But there will still be water on the surface, the Zinsser only solves the stains. If I emulsion over the same again.. I'll  be in the same boat. Anyway the idea with bathroom paint is it's sort of then a washable surface, so Im not rubbing in the mould into the paint.. but wiping it off.

[TonyT]

Raising the temp and ventilation is the key though not the paint choice

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

You cannot irradicate it, nor even make any effect on it either.. I have no choice but live with it. 

 

Utter BS. 

[saveasteading]

4 hours ago, Adsibob said:

my electrician refused to fit downlights without hoods.

Fair enough: not his shout on fire risk.  

 

4 hours ago, MJNewton said:

a passage for fire.

Good point. I was thinking attic with insulation over, and shouldn't have.

 

[Onoff]

You really need to stop thinking yourself into a corner here over the damp. Nothing is impossible. I'll grant it's likely more difficult and potentially expensive given the fabric of an old stone cottage. Go back far enough and these buildings would have been very air leaky around the walls and doors with no insulation. Heated by a single or multiple open fires with a chimney.

 

By "modernising" we often stop the building from breathing. By having a well insulated area with little moving air like room corners its a magnet for dust that gets damp then mould spores etc. Particularly adjacent to windows is an issue where cold bridging can occur. Sadly I'd almost guarantee your builders would not have taken the same care you did to seal your window perimeters. They may or may not have foamed the edges. Even then it will have been hit and miss.

 

On the subject of old ways...don't overlook cleaning. I'm not saying you're not but you're a bloke, remember your smelly washing machine saga?

 

When my lad was at uni in his various digs, everytime we visited, SWMBO would go equipped like Mrs Mop with bleach wipes and remove exactly the same looking mould from round the windows. Again, old properties with added uPVC.

[joe90]

Plus @zoothornif this is a local damp atmosphere thing like you say then that is not a building regulation fail!!

[Gone West]

11 hours ago, zoothorn said:

the damp/ mould problem simply cannot be addressed. Not here. It's something inherrant to us all here, we all moan about it

It would be interesting to know what the humidity and temperature is in the damp room. I seem to remember last year you bought a sensor so you should be able to find out.

[saveasteading]

Dampness is nearly always a big problem and should be resolved. But to avoid it coming up in the inspection, spray with bleach and the colour may disappear temporarily.

[zoothorn]

6 hours ago, Gone West said:

It would be interesting to know what the humidity and temperature is in the damp room. I seem to remember last year you bought a sensor so you should be able to find out.

I did but it reads a similar ballpark figure to normal. It's far from normal, or, something else isn't registered with such a humidity test, or, the device isn't up to snuff (it's just a $1 amazon temp guage after all).

 

Regardless of what a figure says, you can just see evidence of a hugely unusually bad moisture problem in such a short period of time in a new build room, & with my description of what it's like to live here, & esp the biggest evidence of all something's very strangely amiss here- my physical pain for months 6 years ago immediate upon moving in, until my lungs got used to the climate in this local area. If my figure reads 67% as yours might too.. the reading is, for all intents & purposes, utterly meaningless.

 

Anyway the thread isn't to focus on how I can fix this, as I cannot do so ( unless I ask god to change the climate here). Btw I ventilate this room all day, window open, & I sleep with a window partially open too. So it's nothing whatsoever to do with inadequate ventilation. If I was sleeping with a bison though.. then this would be the likely cause. I do not. Not in september (they get randy).

 

Thread's only to do with if I need to, & if so how I can cover these defects for the BCO to sign off the build. 
 

Could someone remind me what I use as a 'bead' from a tube ( iirc this is what I did) on the corners between reveals & cills, reveal & skirting etc. I can't recall what I used.. but it's gone totally black in places. Maybe a better choice here, or did I use totally wrong material maybe to have gone like this.

 

Thanks, zoot

[zoothorn]

3 hours ago, saveasteading said:

Dampness is nearly always a big problem and should be resolved. But to avoid it coming up in the inspection, spray with bleach and the colour may disappear temporarily.

SS, you cannot resolve it here. As I've described the damp is a local phenomenon, a micro-climate anomally. Dampness as I've described is only a problem in damp (local) areas. Not house-specific damp coming up for eg. I mean the village, the local area. This has nothing to do with damp coming through the new build materials, or it having been built inadequately or materials chosen inadequately. It was seen & documented how it was built, in detail: all normal/ up to standard quality/ dpm's in standard places/ materials of standard type/ nothing was under-par at any stage ( the BCO himself came & checked at stages anyway, this alone is proof).

 

Ok I could resolve it if: I introduce 3x 2hp dehumidifiers & run them 24/7 every day in this bedroom from sept to april, sleep with the windows & french doors wide open all winter, & wear a large mask to trap any moisture. But it's not conjusive to live like this. This is an unfeasable proposition. I could also solve it if: I arranged 4x huge cranes & moved it to england. If I did this, the panes wouldn't be saturated each day, the cill corners not black with mould, nor the plasterboard moisture-damaged in only 18 months. It would look like your rooms. It would still look as it did when built, if for eg, it was simply built elsewhere, in england for eg.

 

zh

[joe90]

4 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

As I've described the damp is a local phenomenon,

So why would it fail building regulations 🤷‍♂️

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

So why would it fail building regulations 🤷‍♂️

Well, it could perhaps because the build work was finished 18months ago.. & during this albeit shortish time the "damage" ( if it is, I cannot tell if the door reveals pB all needs replacing) has occurred.

 

I'm not quite clear about your Q's pov though.

[joe90]

13 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I'm not quite clear about your Q's pov though.

Building regulations control how things are built which do not cover local environment conditions  (which is what you say causes the problem), if it was built without a DPC the building inspector should pick that up during the build. I firmly believe this damp/mould thing will not fail your inspection, also the BCO will advise on any problems he finds and asks you to remedy. You will not get fined or sent to prison fir a fail, just ask you to remedy what he sees as not right.

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

Building regulations control how things are built which do not cover local environment conditions  (which is what you say causes the problem), if it was built without a DPC the building inspector should pick that up during the build. I firmly believe this damp/mould thing will not fail your inspection, also the BCO will advise on any problems he finds and asks you to remedy. You will not get fined or sent to prison fir a fail, just ask you to remedy what he sees as not right.

Hi J, good points there thanks. YEs I could even ask him about these typical local problems, although I'm certain it's turbo'd by our steep sided (& very close by either side up here) valley hills, so esp bad in this upper spot.. which he'll likely not know so intimately. I certainly will ask after/ if he signs it off.
 

I just hope he won't say for eg "plasterboard moisture-affected, door reveals need redoing please".. so I still think it makes sense to Zinsser it/ redecorate just in case.

 

Could you remind me: what stuff is usually put in corners where plasterboard meets upvc frame, & skirting & door frame meets cill? Is it silicone, or caulk stuff? May well be something else I put on. I defo need to redo this blackened beading.

 

Thanks, zh

[Onoff]

If you re silicone you could use Forever White. Has anti mould stuff in it and works.

[joe90]

You can paint caulk but not silicone, silicone will be more flexible so more ideal for a joint between different materials , plasterboard and UPVC.. Foreverwhite  as @Onoff says is ideal.

[Onoff]

SWMBO here says she has to regularly wipe clean the insides of some window frames to remove mould. Especially bad around the old Everest patio door, aluminium frame, double glazed etc. The edges of the frame almost certainly wouldn't have been foamed etc. Likely great cold bridges.

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

If you re silicone you could use Forever White. Has anti mould stuff in it and works.

Aha sounds ideal, though I bet it can't cope with mine. Will check it out thanks.

 

Last Q really, maybe PeterW might know.. is my using rough sawn tannalised stakes (actually have some farmland real purpose I think) for my balcony spindles a problem?

 

Zoot

[zoothorn]

Off topic but just to show an eg of just one typical aspect of this 'thing' here I talk about. This room renovated 3 years ago, insulation board put under this very wall example here, suggested by folks on here. This wall has 50mm of insulation total within it's depth. Not huge no, but something.

 

This pic is my nearest kitchen wall to where I sit alot here on the iPad next to a lovely view out me window. The area of this wall  (RHS of window).. the middle 'head level' third of it then.. is covered with this uniform mould. The wall third above is clear. The third below is clear. The wall left of the window & all other wall areas of kitchen: clear. Breath combined with the 'thing' --is-- the cause. You dont have one inch of wall like this. Nowhere you've known or visited, has a wall like this.

 

I've never known -anything- like it, I've never seen anything like it anywhere I've ever been in/ lived in/ visited, here, abroad, in my entire life. Something*... something... is reacting with my breath ( & the heavy innitial breathing pain in my chest undoubtedly links to it too)... which hits a wall, & causes this mould. This is the '*thing' I talk about affecting your breath. The doors' panes saturation cannot be caused by my breath, as it's so much, & occurs when Im away. But a combination of factors causes this massive, unusually-so, moisture-affected different wall areas have -only- one common denominator: the air: the atmosphere: the microclimate here.

 

 

[zoothorn]

And here is another, small very localised yet different patch of some entirely different form of mould: this is formed where my hats touch up against the side wall hanging from a peg on the kitchen door, when it's opened (alot of the time). Very unusual goings on. 
 

Its extremely difficult to remove too. It is an addition to the newish painted room, it's not a rubbing away of the paint. It is some form of whitish mould, definitely ( as Ive removed it twice in 3 years by scrubbing damn hard.. but it just reappears within months). Never known anything like it. It's just cursed with this moisture issue here.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by zoothorn

[Onoff]

Anecdotal evidence these sorts of mould spores can lead to dementia like illnesses.

 

https://www.alzdiscovery.org/cognitive-vitality/blog/can-mold-harm-your-brain

 

Could explain a lot.....