Mains for kitchen only

[Jilly]

A friend of mine has one of 4 barn conversions which is supplied by a 30m (I'm not sure if it can be made deeper) bore hole which is supplying contaminated water. They are down a small road and were quoted £150K to get mains water, which is pretty out of the question.

 

There is an existing low pressure mains supply to the main farmhouse, which go nearby (maybe another one too) so common sense says is possible to create a drinking water supply to the 5 kitchens whilst keeping the borehole for everything else.

 

I can see these would be a complete pita to retro fit, but surely something is possible for a reasonable cost? Must mains supplies always go underground? 

[Temp]

Most of the £150k cost will probably be digging up and reinstating the road. Who owns the road and is there an alternative route across fields to the main?  

[PeterW]

What is the water contaminated with ..? Could find that shell boring a new borehole would be cheaper. Also worth noting you need potable water to all inside taps - don’t forget things such as cleaning teeth etc !

[Mr Punter]

If this is for 5 properties, could the cost be shared?  You may mitigate a fair bit if you can get consent from whoever owns the verge.

[jamieled]

I'd look to understand the contamination problem first. Refurbishing the existing borehole or putting in specific treatment may be a more economical efficient. I've not seen any spec from any water company for above ground supplies; frost damage would be a concern.

 

 

[Carrerahill]

3 hours ago, Jilly said:

A friend of mine has one of 4 barn conversions which is supplied by a 30m (I'm not sure if it can be made deeper) bore hole which is supplying contaminated water. They are down a small road and were quoted £150K to get mains water, which is pretty out of the question.

 

There is an existing low pressure mains supply to the main farmhouse, which go nearby (maybe another one too) so common sense says is possible to create a drinking water supply to the 5 kitchens whilst keeping the borehole for everything else.

 

I can see these would be a complete pita to retro fit, but surely something is possible for a reasonable cost? Must mains supplies always go underground? 

Contaminated with what would be my first question, then see if that could be treated. A small scale take on a slowsan filter or UV or what not. 

 

If there is an existing mains supply locally, then this could possibly be used to feed a potable water buffer tank(s) with booster which could be filled say over night every night (timed pump/level circuit). We do a lot of stored boosted water for flatted developments, A to boost pressure and B where water supplier are not happy about the new connection capacity requirement. We have a small block of 12 flats where the water mains is existing and undersized, a small tank room and a booster pump has solved this. 

 

It may not work for many many reasons, but I am sure a system could be had to provide potable water for <150K. 

 

Could the existing supply be upgraded cheaper? Friends upgraded a 250m supply to their house with the use of a mole to run new line, worked out quite cheap, another friend with a farm had a new line pulled in through his existing line with a splitter mole which is pulled by a draw wire through the existing pipe and splits it as it goes pulling behind it the new line. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Carrerahill

[Jilly]

It's nitrate run off from farmland as far as I know.

[PeterW]

23 minutes ago, Jilly said:

It's nitrate run off from farmland as far as I know.

So that will only contaminate the surface - is it a shell lined borehole ..?

There are plenty of filter systems for nitrates using ion exchange and they are regenerated using salt solution. Certainly a lot cheaper than mains ! 

 

[Jilly]

3 minutes ago, PeterW said:

So that will only contaminate the surface - is it a shell lined borehole ..?

There are plenty of filter systems for nitrates using ion exchange and they are regenerated using salt solution. Certainly a lot cheaper than mains ! 

 

I'll ask. Thank you

[Jilly]

Update: It's nitrates in 4 properties and bacteria in one.

Apparently the farmer wouldn't sell the borehole with the barn conversions, but now they need an upgrade of filter (cost approx £20K) he won't do it. 

 

It's a bit of a Mexican standoff as he is supplying them with undrinkable water (the under counter things don't comply and it tastes pants). They think he should pay as he wanted to keep the borehole...Just wondering where the families stand now?

 

 

 

 

[Carrerahill]

8 minutes ago, Jilly said:

Update: It's nitrates in 4 properties and bacteria in one.

Apparently the farmer wouldn't sell the borehole with the barn conversions, but now they need an upgrade of filter (cost approx £20K) he won't do it. 

 

It's a bit of a Mexican standoff as he is supplying them with undrinkable water (the under counter things don't comply and it tastes pants). They think he should pay as he wanted to keep the borehole...Just wondering where the families stand now?

 

 

 

 

So he owns it, but what is the legal arrangement for him to supply them water? The only way I would be comfortable with this arrangement would be if there was an agreement, legally, for water to be supplied, perhaps a service charge for the water. Where we go on holiday the chap that owns several cottages and lodges owns the local water treatment plant, everyone connected pays him £120 a year for water. He uses that money for maintenance and upgrades.

 

So assuming there is an agreement, what does it say? If the farmer has just kept the borehole and agreed to let people take water from if FOC and with no agreement, then what is to stop him stopping supply one day or like now, the new residents having no recourse when the borehole water becomes undrinkable...

 

I would advise your friends to initially investigate the agreement in place. If there is nothing, I think they are snookered and will need to get water in themselves or talk to the farmer and pay for the borehole to be upgraded and agree a 100 year contract or something reasonable now and in the future on it.

 

There might also be some mileage to be had speaking to the developer who converted/sold the conversions, surely building control signed this all off, so what was the proper arrangement? 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Carrerahill

[Kelvin]

It would have a bit daft for all 5 of the barns to buy a house without having a legal agreement in place for the water supply from the borehole so hopefully something is in place.
 

Regardless of the situation with the farmer I’d be speaking with the other homeowners about drilling your own borehole and plant and splitting the cost between the houses. It wouldn’t be that expensive and you have more surety of supply. It’ll make the houses easier to sell too. 

 

If one of the houses has bacteria and the others don’t then it’s not the borehole causing that. 

[kommando]

On 11/08/2022 at 16:22, Carrerahill said:

another friend with a farm had a new line pulled in through his existing line with a splitter mole which is pulled by a draw wire through the existing pipe and splits it as it goes pulling behind it the new line. 

I replaced an asbestos fibrous cement mains by digging it up every 90M, making a hole big enough to work in. We then feed 100M long 25mm plastic pipe with a wooden shaped plug in the end into each 90M section. A small dribble of water in the pipe reduced the friction enough and kept the wooden plug afloat enough so it could be pushed by hand down the full 90m. The ID of the asbestos pipe was 65mm and there were joints every few metres. There were 5 90M sections and it took 2 people 2 days. There had been several bursts over the years so the pipe route was known.

[Carrerahill]

19 hours ago, kommando said:

I replaced an asbestos fibrous cement mains by digging it up every 90M, making a hole big enough to work in. We then feed 100M long 25mm plastic pipe with a wooden shaped plug in the end into each 90M section. A small dribble of water in the pipe reduced the friction enough and kept the wooden plug afloat enough so it could be pushed by hand down the full 90m. The ID of the asbestos pipe was 65mm and there were joints every few metres. There were 5 90M sections and it took 2 people 2 days. There had been several bursts over the years so the pipe route was known.

Sounds like that was a jolly fine plan!

[kommando]

1 hour ago, Carrerahill said:

Sounds like that was a jolly fine plan!

After seeing how the fibre ducting and cable has just been laid in the local verge then I would also try sucking a pull rope with a cotton wool bundle or plastic bag at the head. Then with a vacuum cleaner pull the rope through and then use the pull rope to pull the pipe through.  

 

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by kommando
Better youtube link

[Kelvin]

I didn’t have much success using a hoover to suck the pull rope through my 25m of 38mm ducting. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Kelvin

[markc]

Compressor to blow it through works much better than sucking

[Carrerahill]

2 hours ago, kommando said:

After seeing how the fibre ducting and cable has just been laid in the local verge then I would also try sucking a pull rope with a cotton wool bundle or plastic bag at the head. Then with a vacuum cleaner pull the rope through and then use the pull rope to pull the pipe through.  

 

That is how I drew cable through conduits on my extension and house to garage routes. I have even put a vacuum in a wall to draw ribbon through a stud wall past a noggin to pull a T&E cable down.

 

God bless Henry hoovers!

 

[Carrerahill]

1 hour ago, Kelvin said:

I didn’t have much success using a hoover to suck the pull rope through my 25m of 38mm ducting. 

You're better to start with string with a piece of rag tied to the end to make a plug, then suck that through, then pull in the rope and so on...