Stairs and Building contol

[GrantMcscott]

Hi 

Can anyone advise if the following has any issue with building regulations.  All the goings will be equal and the rises, 1m wide and head clearance is fine.  

 

it is the way the top is designed with the turn in the image this is due to get it over a wall after another issue.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by GrantMcscott

[bassanclan]

Last step shows you partially stepping up into a wall, which will not work. Could you add a step at the bottom.and make the two top winders a half landing?

[ProDave]

What is below that wall?

 

I would design the stairs properly, then rebuild that wall so it meets the underside of the stairs however they end up.

[Simplysimon]

44 minutes ago, bassanclan said:

make the two top winders a half landing?

i would agree with that depending on joist depth, does that meet stair regs?

[Modernista]

I would try and lose those top two risers by making it 13 risers with 4 winders at the turn. It will increase the required going per tread to stay at 42 deg but if as you say headroom isn't a problem then you could push round a bit towards bottom flight. A good stair builder will be able to minimise the going along the 3m long wall by setting out those 4 winders carefully so they were partly housed into the string of the lower flight rather than just at newel. You haven't said if there are any restrictions at the top landing if you exited straight ahead without the turn in the way I'm describing? (i.e I'm not sure if you are just trying to avoid breaching the ply web beams/joists or have to have a turn at the top because of wall configuration)?

 

 

[joe90]

10 hours ago, bassanclan said:

Last step shows you partially stepping up into a wall,

I beg to differ, the wall is 340mm below the landing height! So plenty of room for the riser. Might be worth trying a stair designer to see if another option is available.

[GrantMcscott]

13 hours ago, bassanclan said:

Last step shows you partially stepping up into a wall, which will not work. Could you add a step at the bottom.and make the two top winders a half landing?

Hi the last step is above the wall.  See pic attached do you think this would be better

 

13 hours ago, ProDave said:

What is below that wall?

 

I would design the stairs properly, then rebuild that wall so it meets the underside of the stairs however they end up.

It is a bathroom below the stairs so this is not an option unfortunately as it would be to difficult and expensive .

 

13 hours ago, Simplysimon said:

i would agree with that depending on joist depth, does that meet stair regs?

See picture attached do you think this is better

 

3 hours ago, Modernista said:

I would try and lose those top two risers by making it 13 risers with 4 winders at the turn. It will increase the required going per tread to stay at 42 deg but if as you say headroom isn't a problem then you could push round a bit towards bottom flight. A good stair builder will be able to minimise the going along the 3m long wall by setting out those 4 winders carefully so they were partly housed into the string of the lower flight rather than just at newel. You haven't said if there are any restrictions at the top landing if you exited straight ahead without the turn in the way I'm describing? (i.e I'm not sure if you are just trying to avoid breaching the ply web beams/joists or have to have a turn at the top because of wall configuration)?

 

 

I am not 100% sure what you mean the reason there is only 2 rises at the top is to avoid the wall any more then I would hit it. .  Every stair designer I have went to has left a ledge at the top as this is out of normal for them so they have struggled with it.

3 hours ago, joe90 said:

I beg to differ, the wall is 340mm below the landing height! So plenty of room for the riser. Might be worth trying a stair designer to see if another option is available.

I have not managed to find anyone yet that has come up with an idea to solve the issue they keep leaving a ledge at the top which I do not want.  I think it is out of the normal for them so they do not think about how they can use the additional space.

 

 

[Simplysimon]

if you can get that option to meet regs then it would be ideal. i thought you were constrained due to number of steps and rise. building up on top of the bathroom wall and creating the landing will also look better than the double winder

[GrantMcscott]

50 minutes ago, Simplysimon said:

if you can get that option to meet regs then it would be ideal. i thought you were constrained due to number of steps and rise. building up on top of the bathroom wall and creating the landing will also look better than the double winder

No I had this before and cur it out so can just add in some more floor joists and infill it.  I just thought it would look strange coming to the top of the stairs and facing a wall and turning sharp left to get to the landing.

 

Need to check the head height on the windows though just to make sure it is at 2m at the top next to the windows.

 

 

[Simplysimon]

it doesn't look as though you're going to have sufficient depth of landing

[GrantMcscott]

I thought the landing had to be the same or greater than the width of the stairs so if I fill the bit in black I will have about a 1 metre

[Gordo]

The first plan of stair with landing tapered would comply with B Regs. Maybe not so pretty tho. The 1/4 landing mentioned by someone would have a single step at top which wouldn't comply.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Gordo

[Simplysimon]

46 minutes ago, GrantMcscott said:

I thought the landing had to be the same or greater than the width of the stairs so if I fill the bit in black I will have about a 1 metre

ahh, with your reply, ithought that the pic showed it with the floor as original prior to joist being removed above bathroom. 1m will be fine, as long as you say, the window allows the required headroom

[GrantMcscott]

51 minutes ago, Simplysimon said:

ahh, with your reply, ithought that the pic showed it with the floor as original prior to joist being removed above bathroom. 1m will be fine, as long as you say, the window allows the required headroom

Just measured tonight and the line on the photo is 1700mm will this be an issue?  the rat is ol just the last 300mm is not at 2m

 

 

[ProDave]

Did you have a building regs compliant stair design before you formed the stair opening, as it's beginning to look like the stair hole is not big enough.

 

What is the distance from the wall with the window to the bottom edge of the stair opening hole in this picture?

[GrantMcscott]

11 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Did you have a building regs compliant stair design before you formed the stair opening, as it's beginning to look like the stair hole is not big enough.

 

What is the distance from the wall with the window to the bottom edge of the stair opening hole in this picture?

So from the window to the landing where you see the cable it is 1630 mm

[ProDave]

So even if you start at that 1630 edge you have room to drop down 2 steps to a quarter landing.  That will give you your 2 metre headroom to the window corner.  From that work out how many steps you could get to the right before another quarter landing then the remainder in a straight run. You would need to model it carefully to ensure the bottom flight would not run out of headroom.

 

Have you tried on the on line modeling tools on the likes of stairbox, Pear Stairs, TK stairs etc?

 

I can't see a winder working at least not on that top turn, as at least part of one step will fall foul of the 2 metre headroom, and if you get a jobsworth building inspector it will fail.

 

I still think you have to lower that wall to allow 2 steps down to that quarter landing so it can be the full width.

[GrantMcscott]

5 minutes ago, ProDave said:

So even if you start at that 1630 edge you have room to drop down 2 steps to a quarter landing.  That will give you your 2 metre headroom to the window corner.  From that work out how many steps you could get to the right before another quarter landing then the remainder in a straight run. You would need to model it carefully to ensure the bottom flight would not run out of headroom.

 

Have you tried on the on line modeling tools on the likes of stairbox, Pear Stairs, TK stairs etc?

 

I can't see a winder working at least not on that top turn, as at least part of one step will fall foul of the 2 metre headroom, and if you get a jobsworth building inspector it will fail.

 

I still think you have to lower that wall to allow 2 steps down to that quarter landing so it can be the full width.

The wonder gives me the 2m head room at the top due to the fact the last step pushes it out away from the window.  

 

I havw tried the online line tools and quarter landings does not work due to the size it has to be winders to save space.

 

i may be able to get 2 steps down will have a look at the sizing tomorrow as I think to the bottom of the plaster board is 2300 mm  

[GrantMcscott]

16 hours ago, Gordo said:

The first plan of stair with landing tapered would comply with B Regs. Maybe not so pretty tho. The 1/4 landing mentioned by someone would have a single step at top which wouldn't comply.

This is the only design I think works but not sure if it complies with Building regs as per your statement but not sure why and my inspector is on holiday at the min.

 

14 hours ago, ProDave said:

So even if you start at that 1630 edge you have room to drop down 2 steps to a quarter landing.  That will give you your 2 metre headroom to the window corner.  From that work out how many steps you could get to the right before another quarter landing then the remainder in a straight run. You would need to model it carefully to ensure the bottom flight would not run out of headroom.

 

Have you tried on the on line modeling tools on the likes of stairbox, Pear Stairs, TK stairs etc?

 

I can't see a winder working at least not on that top turn, as at least part of one step will fall foul of the 2 metre headroom, and if you get a jobsworth building inspector it will fail.

 

I still think you have to lower that wall to allow 2 steps down to that quarter landing so it can be the full width.

There just is not enough depth to get 2 steps in at the top I would be way into the bathroom and not sure how I would support the stairs.  The only way I can do it is with 1 step and a quarter landing.  Will need to pack the stairs of the wall between 50mm to 100mm to give me the extra head room at the top due to the slope.

 

 

[Simplysimon]

is it not possible to put a full quarter turn at the top?

[GrantMcscott]

56 minutes ago, Simplysimon said:

is it not possible to put a full quarter turn at the top?

I thought that I had done in the previous post ?  But one step to the landing

[joe90]

You might find this helpful.      https://www.tkstairs.com/information-help/building-regulations/domestic-building-regulations-explained

[GrantMcscott]

11 minutes ago, joe90 said:

You might find this helpful.      https://www.tkstairs.com/information-help/building-regulations/domestic-building-regulations-explained

So from that I do not think I am breaching Building regs with a quarter landing with 1 step up to the final landing

[Simplysimon]

21 hours ago, GrantMcscott said:

I thought that I had done in the previous post ?  But one step to the landing

that was a quarter landing not a quarter turn, your first post almost had the the quarter turn but was missing the last tapered tread

[GrantMcscott]

18 minutes ago, Simplysimon said:

that was a quarter landing not a quarter turn, your first post almost had the the quarter turn but was missing the last tapered tread

Ah ok sorry, it would be to low the bottom step of the quarter turn would be in the bathroom