HughF Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 9 hours ago, RedMango said: Im hoping a £2k boiler can last me till 2032 then i'll consider it.🤣 If you do the calcs you might be surprised at what little heat you need. A 7kW LG therma V is about 2.7k, and you can self install… If it were me I’d sack the gas off now, it doesn’t have a future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 14 hours ago, RedMango said: So the general consensus is radiator are better than Ufh in this situation? Not going to lie that goes against everything I've read but I guess most my research has been on Ufh Vs radiators and not been specific to the house type. I'm not to worried about the budget I just wanted it to be as energy efficient as possible and allow me to not pay a stupid amount for gas on 10 years time. Sorry but you have picked the wrong type of house, you would need to update that by such a huge amount it would cost far more than it’s worth. You can update it and add good amounts of insulation, but to get it to a point of low energy bills, you will need to rip the lot back to bare plaster, all floors up, windows out and resize the openings to take insulation on the reveals. It can be done, but you need to ask yourself is it worth it, chucking £100 grand plus at something. You could do it up and make some cash and move on to the next project, with the aim to build a real good one one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, HughF said: Don’t discount air source… do the heat loss calcs and go from there. You’ll end up on one eventually, when the boiler ban in 2032 comes in. What boiler ban ?? you might not be able to install a new one, but there not coming around and going to be pulling gas boilers out. Totally impossible. Edited April 23, 2022 by Russell griffiths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HughF Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: What boiler ban ?? you might not be able to install a new one, but there not coming around and going to be pulling gas boilers out. Totally impossible. Well yes, obviously it’s the sale of new ones that’s stopping. I’m not that daft 😂 Edited April 23, 2022 by HughF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMango Posted April 23, 2022 Author Share Posted April 23, 2022 5 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: Sorry but you have picked the wrong type of house, you would need to update that by such a huge amount it would cost far more than it’s worth. You can update it and add good amounts of insulation, but to get it to a point of low energy bills, you will need to rip the lot back to bare plaster, all floors up, windows out and resize the openings to take insulation on the reveals. It can be done, but you need to ask yourself is it worth it, chucking £100 grand plus at something. You could do it up and make some cash and move on to the next project, with the aim to build a real good one one day. To be honest that sounds exactly like i was planning on doing. Minus the resizing of the window openeings as i didnt know about that but most have rotted away so they've probably resized themselves. We will be throwing at least 50k into the house maybe more down the line as we plan on keeping it for 30+ years after which ill kids will have it. But i do get your point that its partly wasted. I think after doing more reading im going to stick with radiators i think most are right in saying i will never get the house efficent enough to benifit from UFH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMango Posted April 23, 2022 Author Share Posted April 23, 2022 8 hours ago, HughF said: If you do the calcs you might be surprised at what little heat you need. A 7kW LG therma V is about 2.7k, and you can self install… If it were me I’d sack the gas off now, it doesn’t have a future. Sorry no chance, In all my reading and reviews i've not seen one non biased good thing to say about ASHP in the enviroment/situation im in. Maybe in 10 years time ill reconsider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HughF Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 (edited) 50 minutes ago, RedMango said: Sorry no chance, In all my reading and reviews i've not seen one non biased good thing to say about ASHP in the enviroment/situation im in. Maybe in 10 years time ill reconsider You’ll need to insulate properly no matter what heat source you use though? Unless you have a never ending bucket of £20’s…. The tech won’t change in 10 yrs, it’s basic physics and thermodynamics. But you can bet your house on the fact that electric:gas will end up at 3:1 and when that happens you’re definitely better off with air source. Heck at the current 28p/7.9p you’d be better off if you can get an scop of 3.55 or better. Edited April 23, 2022 by HughF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HughF Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 52 minutes ago, RedMango said: To be honest that sounds exactly like i was planning on doing. Minus the resizing of the window openeings as i didnt know about that but most have rotted away so they've probably resized themselves. We will be throwing at least 50k into the house maybe more down the line as we plan on keeping it for 30+ years after which ill kids will have it. But i do get your point that its partly wasted. I think after doing more reading im going to stick with radiators i think most are right in saying i will never get the house efficent enough to benifit from UFH. Size the rads for a flow of 45 deg and you’ll be future proofing yourself. As I said, irrespective of what you use to generate the heat, do try and do a heat loss calc and rad sizing exercise. It’s well worth an hour with a tape measure and half an hour in front of excel. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 200mm EWI, rewire and new 3g windows. 300mm + attic insulation. Mineral wool batts in suspended floor supported by membrane drooped between. 2 X split unit A2As. One upstairs and one downstairs. ESHP for DHW. No wet CH. You can include a spur for a spare electric rad if you think you'll need it. (I bet you won't) It's the cheapest "proper" solution I can think of. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 +1 to @Iceverge's suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMango Posted April 24, 2022 Author Share Posted April 24, 2022 18 hours ago, Iceverge said: 200mm EWI, rewire and new 3g windows. 300mm + attic insulation. Mineral wool batts in suspended floor supported by membrane drooped between. This is exactly what I'm planning apart from the floors will be half PIR and half Wool and I don't have the funds for EWI yet but its the next stage. I'm not au fait with the abbreviations sorry, what are A2A & ESHP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMango Posted April 24, 2022 Author Share Posted April 24, 2022 20 hours ago, HughF said: Size the rads for a flow of 45 deg and you’ll be future proofing yourself. As I said, irrespective of what you use to generate the heat, do try and do a heat loss calc and rad sizing exercise. It’s well worth an hour with a tape measure and half an hour in front of excel. Yes I definitely will, I've started now from the info I have then finish it off when I can get into the property to take proper measurements etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 A2A. Air to Air- like air conditioning ashp- air source heat pump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 21 minutes ago, TonyT said: A2A. Air to Air- like air conditioning ashp- air source heat pump I'd assumed ESHP was a typo for EAHP: Exhaust air heat pumps https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/advice/exhaust-air-heat-pumps/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMango Posted April 25, 2022 Author Share Posted April 25, 2022 Thanks. Any particular reason for the air con? We have windows open regularly? I'm definitely going to size the rads and pipe work ready for a ashp but I'm just not ready to take that leap. I'll just run a combi at a low temp and when it breaks replace it with one. I'm not sure I'm doing the heat loss calcs right. Used 5 or so online and all give me between 5.5k BTU to 8k BTU (just working off the living room ATM till I can grasp the calculations etc. If I'm to work of a delta of 30 instead of 50 then it's about double so I'd need a output of around 15k BTUs ?? 😂 Or am I missing something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HughF Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 (edited) On 25/04/2022 at 09:21, RedMango said: Thanks. Any particular reason for the air con? We have windows open regularly? I'm definitely going to size the rads and pipe work ready for a ashp but I'm just not ready to take that leap. I'll just run a combi at a low temp and when it breaks replace it with one. I'm not sure I'm doing the heat loss calcs right. Used 5 or so online and all give me between 5.5k BTU to 8k BTU (just working off the living room ATM till I can grasp the calculations etc. If I'm to work of a delta of 30 instead of 50 then it's about double so I'd need a output of around 15k BTUs ?? 😂 Or am I missing something An aircon can heat the place just fine and you don’t need to fit radiators then. yes, you’re doing the heat loss calcs wrong. The heat loss has nothing to do with the delta-T of the rads. It has everything to do with the delta-t of indoor to outdoor temps. I know you aren’t planning an ashp now, but I really like a freedom heatpumps toolkit spreadsheet for doing heat loss calcs. It seems to have a nice mix of stuff in there, does rad sizing for you too. They were emailing it out to anyone who asked on their YouTube video, but that video has since been removed. I've attached it here 1702058696_2021FreedomHeatPumpstoolkitV3.3forallinstallers-Copy.xlsx Edited April 26, 2022 by HughF 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 @RedMango Have a read of this. @Hanksy has some good posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMango Posted July 22, 2022 Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 Update: Hi all thanks for the input. So house is due to complete soon and waiting to hear back from a survey in the next week before exchange. I have found out though that the house is a lot more insulated that previous thought. It has/will have triple glazing, insulated cavity walls, insulated suspended timber floor, insulated roof. I still haven't decided between getting a ASHP or Combi but I'm doing lost of heat loss calcs and getting averages so ill come back with more precise numbers but a ball park is between 900 - 1400w per room. As my 1st job on the list when moving in is to take up the floor for rewire, insulate and plump. Do I install UFH or Radiator pipe work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adsibob Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 On 20/04/2022 at 15:58, bassanclan said: Check with your mortgage that they will lend on a property with no central heating If you are putting central heating in, I wouldn’t disclose this to the mortgage company. They might only do a desktop or drive by valuation so wouldn’t know if you don’t tell them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adsibob Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 On 23/04/2022 at 09:47, Russell griffiths said: Sorry but you have picked the wrong type of house, you would need to update that by such a huge amount it would cost far more than it’s worth. Well that rather depends where the house is. I just spent several hundred thousand pounds doing exactly what @RedMango is proposing to do. We did go somewhat ott, ripping out the joists, putting posi joists in so that we could do MVHR, new roof joists as well, new roof, new windows, new floors, new ceilings, new everything really except 3 walls of the house. But even those were refurbished from inside and out. Unrecognisable from original house. It still cost me less than half what I paid for the house, and now the house is worth much more than what I paid for it (even including the £kkkkkk we’ve invested in all the works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adsibob Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 On 23/04/2022 at 18:33, Iceverge said: 200mm EWI, rewire and new 3g windows. 300mm + attic insulation. Mineral wool batts in suspended floor supported by membrane drooped between. 2 X split unit A2As. One upstairs and one downstairs. ESHP for DHW. No wet CH. You can include a spur for a spare electric rad if you think you'll need it. (I bet you won't) It's the cheapest "proper" solution I can think of. It is not possible to add so much EWI to a 1930s house without making it look ridiculous by ruining the architectural features. You’ll be lucky if you have space for 50mm or 60mm. We went with 50mm and got a good outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 @RedMango are you sure about the cavity walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMango Posted July 23, 2022 Author Share Posted July 23, 2022 28 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: @RedMango are you sure about the cavity walls. As sure as I can be without looking myself. But both reports have come back saying it is and the searches found the council had an application for cavity wall insulation to be fitted on the property. I'll of course double check once I've got the keys but the previous owner from what I gather was a bit of a builder/DIY enthusiast so makes sense he had it added back when there was the big push by the gov to get home cavity's insulated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 1 hour ago, RedMango said: As sure as I can be without looking myself. But both reports have come back saying it is and the searches found the council had an application for cavity wall insulation to be fitted on the property. I'll of course double check once I've got the keys but the previous owner from what I gather was a bit of a builder/DIY enthusiast so makes sense he had it added back when there was the big push by the gov to get home cavity's insulated Ok, I thought in the 1930,s it was all solid 9inch brick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMango Posted July 23, 2022 Author Share Posted July 23, 2022 Now i've done some proper heat loss calcs the rooms are between 500 and 900w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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