A Game of Draughts

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

@Onofffo yourself a favour and change your foam. 
look at illbruck airtight foam for all sealing jobs, and soudal Instastick for fitting the reveal boards. 
totally different to the crap your using. 
you probably won’t need any other airtight strategy if you use this stuff. 
Icf supplies in Essex are a new distributor for the illbruck stuff. 

 

Instastik is made by Dow?

 

Yeah I know, I got carried away and when my gun seized with intumescent foam in and went and borrowed that Everbuild stuff off of my nephew in a hurry to fill the gaps.

 

To date I've used this Soudafoam Low Expansion to stick eps to brick & block. Just a plant spray of water on both surfaces then wedge / weight down until set. Was going to use this to fit the boards (which should now be here today).

 

?

 

 

I was considering Illbruck FM330 Pro Foam Air Seal. Tbh I'm not digging this lot out now though. Running round with the IR thermometer and the temperature is pretty constant around the frame now.

 

EDIT: I mean really, should I dig it out?

Edited April 6, 2022 by Onoff

[joe90]

3 minutes ago, Onoff said:

I mean really, should I dig it out?

Well it’s got to be a LOT better than it was! Buildings still need to be “breathable” and only airtight if MVHR is Installed. I adopted this attitude with my loft being lined with OSB which some say is not airtight but my air test was pretty good.

[Radian]

AFAIK the airtightness comes from it's flexibility once cured. A higher degree of joint movement can be accommodated without splitting and allowing air to leak.

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

Well it’s got to be a LOT better than it was! Buildings still need to be “breathable” and only airtight if MVHR is Installed. I adopted this attitude with my loft being lined with OSB which some say is not airtight but my air test was pretty good.

 

I reckon that I could install MVHR in the future here without too much fuss.

 

The original bungalow has 4x2 celing joists. The dormer is built on top. The bottom of the dormer floor joist sit way above the top of the original ceiling joists. The dormer is basically a frame that sits on padstones on the walls.

 

This is from when I gutted the downstairs bathroom (in Oct 2012 apparently). The downstairs wall plate / ceiling joists are just above the red bricks.

 

The dormer consists of a circas 9x6 frame sat on pad stones at the corners and in the middle. Padstone on the left, 9x6 running left to right (with the junction boxes tacked on). There's the centre pad stone just above that bit of corner mesh leaning against the wall.

 

There is mind an RSJ further in running left / right sort of mid dormer too.

 

I reckon then I could run MVHR ducts in the gap.

 

 

I would of course have to bring everything within a thermal envelope which is the mission!

Edited April 6, 2022 by Onoff

[Onoff]

40mm Marmox boards turned up:

 

 

Had hoped I could use "MAK2CHAMP" hybrid! Not enough depth so it'll have to be the cheapo Nu-Tool mains saw...when it stops raining:

 

 

Really not sure on how wide to cut them.  Tempted to just go 170mm all round "for now". Later, (my later😂), when the battening marked X comes off, the iwi can oversail these reveal bits. As I don't yet know exactly what I'm going to do with regards to iwi then probably best I think to stick to 170mm all round. 

 

 

Up top its again just 170mm to the edge of the lintel:

 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Onoff

[Radian]

13 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Really not sure on how wide to cut them.  Tempted to just go 170mm all round "for now". Later, (my later😂), when the battening marked X comes off, the iwi can oversail these reveal bits. As I don't yet know exactly what I'm going to do with regards to iwi then probably best I think to stick to 170mm all round. 

 But that 'later' could be decades away! Why not bring it out all the way out and then, when you get around to IWI, trim it back flush when the battens are removed. That stuff is just so easy to cut.

[Onoff]

5 minutes ago, Radian said:

 But that 'later' could be decades away! Why not bring it out all the way out and then, when you get around to IWI, trim it back flush when the battens are removed. That stuff is just so easy to cut.

 

I'll raise you 200mm then?

 

Sides:

 

 

Sill:

 

[Onoff]

7 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

@Onoff

I would stick the heads on first to get level and square, bracing with timber until foam cures. 
Foam ( Illbruck 330 ) for AT is ample. 
 

Cut with anything tbh, it’s easy to work with. Old blade in a battery circular saw ideal 👍

 

You mean stick it with Illbruck 330?

[Radian]

21 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

I'll raise you 200mm then?

 

Sides:

 

 

Sill:

 

I don't understand what I'm seeing in the first photo - the embossed wallpaper looks to  run straight into the window reveal. Like the window is hard against a perpendicular wall? I thought you just took the lining out of a reveal and were going to replace it. If that was the case I expected it to be cut flush with the wall and the edges trimmed with something decorative or maybe filled and painted.

[Onoff]

8 minutes ago, Radian said:

I don't understand what I'm seeing in the first photo

 

Does this help? The reveals were lined with 5/8" chipboard. The inner block leaf has 1" tile battens overboarded with hardboard then wood chip paper. Then that's papered over with the purple.

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Onoff

[Radian]

Oh right! That was the back of the paper. So what do you plan to do with the decorating now? Presumably a short-term patch-up?

[Onoff]

29 minutes ago, Radian said:

Oh right! That was the back of the paper. So what do you plan to do with the decorating now? Presumably a short-term patch-up?

 

Yep. My short term! 😂 Tbh I would happily live with walls stripped bare for a bit. Having a blank canvas is so much easier. Anyway, in between showers:

 

 

Soffit is well on the pi$$:

 

 

Laser level time to see what's "out" I suppose!

[Onoff]

Soffit wasn't pi$$ed. The Marmox was catching a nail on the hardboard! 😂

 

All the bits cut. Yet to stick when I decide a) what to use, i.e Soudafoam Low Expansion or something else and b) whether to dig out the existing cheapo foam. Need to tweak the little infill bit on the sill at the end by the window.

 

 

Mitred the soffit section:

 

 

[Radian]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

Mitred the soffit section:

 

Nicely done. In fact all your cuts look good and clean. Brilliant stuff to work with IMO. Did a king-sized shower cubicle with it in our rental.

[Onoff]

33 minutes ago, Radian said:

Nicely done. In fact all your cuts look good and clean. Brilliant stuff to work with IMO. Did a king-sized shower cubicle with it in our rental.

 

I cut into 200mm strips with the same old circular saw I used for 12.5mm Aqua Panel. Just clamped a board on it. Then chopped to length on the Evolution Rage 255mm chop saw. Couldn't be bothered changing to the diamond blade.

 

Only thing is with the 40mm Marmox, once plastered there'll only be about 10mm of frame showing at the sides. About 15mm at the top and maybe 20mm at the sill assuming I get a black ash effect uPVC sill later.

[Onoff]

For some reason I thought it would be cement board on one side only of the insulation on the Marmox boards. Quite pleased it's both sides.

 

I reckon the Soufafoam Low Expansion would stick to it.

It was @Jeremy Harris put me onto the stuff. 

 

[Nickfromwales]

5 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

You mean stick it with Illbruck 330?

Yup. Goes off way more rigid than standard foam. 

[Nickfromwales]

2 minutes ago, Onoff said:

For some reason I thought it would be cement board on one side only of the insulation on the Marmox boards. Quite pleased it's both sides.

 

I reckon the Soufafoam Low Expansion would stick to it.

It was @Jeremy Harris put me onto the stuff. 

 

That’s more for volume areas, this is more acute.

[Onoff]

9 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Yup. Goes off way more rigid than standard foam. 

 

This is where I get confused! 😂

 

You say "way more rigid" the blurb says it retains a degree of expansion other foams don't to cope with building movement and thus not crack over time. 

 

 @Russell griffiths said Instastik to put the boards up and Illbruck to do the sealing. You're saying Illbruck (for both?)

 

Yet I've only ever used Sodafoam Low Expansion for sticking things, mainly EPS to brick and block as per Jeremy and other's advice.

 

Many ways to skin this cat I guess.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Onoff

[Onoff]

4 cans of Illbruck FM330 ordered.

[Onoff]

In some respects in seems a bit mad going to these lengths with this and the other window at the front. Ideally we want to take them out and fit floor to ceiling windows. Probably a no no given the front elevatiom but...

 

If it were up to me I'd have moved them inboard anyway. She say no ☹️

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

29 minutes ago, Onoff said:

4 cans of Illbruck FM330 ordered.

For your house, you may need more lol. 
Remember to soak everything with a 50/50 PVA/water solution 2 mins before foaming with the 330. Cures quicker and harder when you moisten surfaces first. 
@pocster “No!”  

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

 

 @Russell griffiths said Instastik to put the boards up and Illbruck to do the sealing. You're saying Illbruck (for both?)

Try one with each and watch the results. The grip on the Illbruck is evil by comparison.

[Onoff]

2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

For your house, you may need more lol. 
Remember to soak everything with a 50/50 PVA/water solution 2 mins before foaming with the 330. Cures quicker and harder when you moisten surfaces first. 
@pocster “No!”  

 

So my moistening everything with plain water in a plant sprayer all these years has been wrong? 

 

Surely if I'm dampening with PVA and there's any risk of the substrate becoming damp it'll re hydrate the PVA? 

 

 

[Onoff]

Amazing service from the Fixings Warehouse down in Charing near Ashford. Ordered the Illbruck FM330 at 8 this morning. Delivered at 1.30pm. That with the pita the M20 is at the mo. Really pleasant delivery driver rang me. I was all "Erm...supposed to be tomorrow?"

 

"Well we aim to please Sir!"

 

Appreciate such prompt delivery might not always be convenient and they were probably going that way with the van anyway but it's worked for me today.