Putting power lines underground on our building plot

[Lucy Murray]

Good morning,

Do any of you have experience of putting power lines underground? The plot of land we have just bought has power lines running straight across it and we're going to need to bury them in order to be able to put our house where we want it! Scottish Power quote was very pricey! Is there a way of doing this more cheaply?

Thanks in advance.

Lucy

[Gone West]

Welcome to the forum Lucy. Do you mean you have overhead power cables crossing your property? If so do you have a wayleave agreement with the DNO? If so you could find out if it is possible to remove the wayleave agreement and make them reconsider the cost. I had uninsulated overhead cables replaced with insulated at my previous house at no cost to me due to the wayleave.

[Jeremy Harris]

We had to do this, as we had not only overhead power and phone wires that were in the way, but also an unmarked (and apparently unknown) large three phase supply cable running diagonally under the plot.

 

We had to get a pole moved to the corner of the plot, and we arranged to dig all the trenches for the new underground cables and put 100mm black duct in, as required by the DNO.  We also had to dig across the lane (expensive - highways licence needed) and put another duct in to run power to a neighbours house, that had previously been overhead.  The DNO (SSE) did no excavating at all, they just pulled new cables through the ducts we'd laid, erected a new pole, disconnected the old cables and reconnected the new ones.  We had to pay around £3500 up front, and they were absolutely appalling at getting the work done on time, delaying our build by around a month.  We had a survey from them in February, agreed the work package in March, were invoiced for this and paid in mid-April and they eventually turned up on site to move the cables and make the connections in August, after a great deal of chasing.

 

I didn't bother getting the DNO to quote for contestable works, as we were going to be running most of the trenches around the site anyway, for other services.  The only additional ground works cost to us was an extra trench across the lane (we were already digging one for a drain, so had to pay the highways licence anyway) plus a few tens of pounds for the black duct that the DNO specified.

 

By contrast, Openreach were a total pain to deal with, but when they did get around to it there was no charge at all, as they viewed that putting new cables underground was improving their network, so they free-issued duct and cable for us to lay, which they then connected to the new pole (it was a combined power and phone pole).

Edited May 5, 2017 by JSHarris

[Lucy Murray]

Hi Peter, 

Thanks for your reply. Yes they're overhead power cables. No wayleave agreement...

[MikeSharp01]

Hi Lucy. We had rather a different experience with moving power cables. The trick we found was as Peter has said was the way leaves on the two poles, both on our land between which a wire ran. We had the wires crossing above the house, one storey, and we said we were building a second storey and that the cables posed a danger as although we would still be below them it would only be 5 feet. They agreed to reroute the cable underground and paid for it all. As it is not you it might be worth finding out who has the pole way leaves and see if they can help you put pressure on the local supplier. In Jeremy's response he mentioned contested works, these are aspects of the work that can be done by people other than the electricity people themselves (IE they don't have a monopoly), so you can either do them yourself or get your ground worker to do them for you.

[Lucy Murray]

@MikeSharp01 - Who paid for it all in your case? I'll see if I can find out who has the wayleaves...

 

I'm in Scotland so I wonder if that makes a difference too? 

[MikeSharp01]

In our case UK power networks paid as they are not allowed, where we are in Kent, to fly cables over buildings with a limited clearance.

[Gone West]

8 hours ago, Lucy Murray said:

Hi Peter, 

Thanks for your reply. Yes they're overhead power cables. No wayleave agreement...

As in Jeremy's case, at our current self build we had to have an overhead cable moved which involved repositioning poles. This was done by EDF, a few years ago, and again there was no cost to us. We asked if they would run the cable under the ground but they said there would be a charge so we didn't bother. There wasn't a wayleave agreement in place when we first moved onto site so we had one set up. They even back dated the payments for a few years. I think having the wayleave agreement helped to get the work done.

Edited May 5, 2017 by PeterStarck

[Temp]

Out of interest what did Scottish Power quote?  Was the quote split into contestable and non-contestable? How long is the new underground route? 

 

Presumably we are talking lines on wooden pole not metal pylons?

[Lucy Murray]

@Temp - yes wooden poles...we don't need to move poles...we just need to bury the cables around the edge of the plot

 

£20-£30K was quoted by Scottish Power over the phone (informal  as they haven't actually been to the site so quote wasn't split). I'd have to measure the distance but i'd estimate @ around 70 metres.

[Jeremy Harris]

We buried around 65m of formerly overhead cables around our plot.  As above, including the moving of a pole, and the new cable and connection, plus some legal costs for a new wayleave, we paid Scottish and Southern Electricity £3,500.  We probably incurred around £1,500 in additional ground works cost, but that was largely because we already had all the heavy gear on site for all the other site ground works.

[Lucy Murray]

@JSHarris - if we could get a quote for around that amount i'd be happy  We're now getting a quote from a Powerline Servicing Company next week...I'll let you all know how we get on! 

[Jeremy Harris]

The best bet is to get the DNO out on site and explain what you want to do, and that you'll do all the trenching and duct laying (if they want it) for them, so all they need to quote for is the new cable plus the connections.  We found the local chap that came out to the site to have a look was very helpful, it was the incompetence of his management that caused all the hassle with delays (a familiar tale here - the guys at the sharp end are usually pretty good for all the services, they are let down by their back office support, or rather lack of it........).

[Stones]

Just had a look at the quote for our site:

 

"The proposal is to reposition the existing HV line. Dismantle HV pole 4 and 3 span between the pole 2 and 4. Replace pole 2 with a terminal pole and stay. Replace Pole 4 with a terminal pole and stay in the corner of the field as agreed with the customer and reconnect the HV line.  Erect a new 50KVA transformer.  Then lay 160m of underground HV cable.  Take an overhead pole connection and lay mains  cable to a pot end. Customer will come back for new supplies when they are ready. Customer to excavate and reinstate all track at no
cost to SSEPD except the first 10m at the poles, to provide a ducted route to the meter point and to provide and install a fire retardant meter board." 

 

Total cost £9817

 

I had an additional domestic connection charge of just over £1K on top of this

[Lucy Murray]

Morning all,

 

Just thought i'd give you an update on this...

We've had a powerline contractor come and look at the site and the H pole that we didn't think we'd be able to move due to cost has a woodpecker living in it and so will need to be replaced....we're hoping we'll now be able to get Scottish Power to help us fund what we need to do!

 

I'll keep you posted!

 

 

[Barney12]

24 minutes ago, Lucy Murray said:

Morning all,

 

Just thought i'd give you an update on this...

We've had a powerline contractor come and look at the site and the H pole that we didn't think we'd be able to move due to cost has a woodpecker living in it and so will need to be replaced....we're hoping we'll now be able to get Scottish Power to help us fund what we need to do!

 

I'll keep you posted!

 

 

 

Crikey I think that's a first for the forum. Ecology actually working in the self builders favour  

[Ferdinand]

Hi @Lucy Murray

 

(I hope you negotiated your purchase price down or it was low enough already !)

 

While you do not have a Wayleave, you may be able to do something by working with your neighbours who would like their poles moved, or even buying the bit of land where they are located in order to be in a position to deal with your wire via dealing with the poles, as you then *would* have a Wayleave.

 

We have talked about wayleaves and how to move them at some length in this other thread, which was a summary of a previous thread on ebuild:

There may be variance of law or terminology due to Scottish Law etc, but the underlying principles should be compatible. Read my long post on that thread and replies for a start in connection with the following summary:

 

1 - There are two types of Wayleaves - Voluntary and Necessary. "Voluntary" means roughly that you have the basic right to tell them to move it after giving formal notice (maybe a 12 month notice period) - which will be in the Wayleave Agreement. "Necessary" means roughly that they have a right to keep it there, so have a basis for charging you as you want to prejudice their interest. In both cases a nominal rent may be involved. My impression is that Voluntary Wayleaves are more likely with older arrangements, since I do not think that "loopholes" like that would be left open now. (*) The one that I had moved was from the 1950s.

 

2 - In your case you do not have a Wayleave for your oversailing cable. Asking for one to be created may help you by making you an acknowledged party, and bring in a couple of hundred. That is probably a diversion from the main issue, which is you wanting that wire moved.

 

3 - One way to move your cable free or less expensively is to know that the poles at each side are Voluntary Wayleaves, and getting the owners of the poles to have them moved. If they are householders they could jump at the opportunity, especially if you are doing the limited amount of donkeywork and just presenting them with letters to sign etc. Obviously keep quiet about the exact amount of money this could save you and that you *must* move it if is so, or some people might play financial games with you.

 

If it is a Necessary Wayleave you need to look at the agreement to see what it says to see if there is any potential benefit or anything you can use.

 

4 - Another option which may be doable is to buy that square meter of land where the pole(s) sit from the owner, then the agreement is transferred to you and you become the owner able to give notice. May be advantageous to make sure you are not forced to share any benefit with the pole-owner. I think that would be doable, You could also perhaps become the pole owners agent in law, but that is being complex for the sake of it. The easy way is to align their interests with yours and help them with the admin.

 

5 - You get a copy of the Wayleave Agreement from the relevant network operator by phoning up or emailing and talking to their "Wayleave Department", and giving them the 6-figure Grid Reference and Identity Details from the pole (take a piccy). They like the full address and postcode as well. You may get away without telling them you own the pole - just ask the basic question. But they *may * want* consent from the landowner. I am not sure whether Wayleave Agreements are public data.

 

You could also potentially get the agreementa by submitting a Freedom of Information request, as DNOs (Distribution Network Operators) are Statutory Corporations and subject to FOI law. The question is still whether the Agreement is in the scope public data.

 

Do as much homework as you can, then start by phoning up and asking. Even reception will send you to the right place quickly. Here is a list of DNOs, but dig around their own website to find the right contact as far as you can:

http://www2.nationalgrid.com/UK/Our-company/Electricity/Distribution-Network-Operator-Companies/

 

There is a little bit of homework here, which may achieve nothing, but if the circs are with you it could save you everything.

 

Best of luck.

 

Ferdinand

 

(*) I got the poles on the way to being removed before I sold my multi-house plot which decreased the downside by removing one risk for the purchaser, and this thread explains how background knowledge and digging saved someone £10k. You need to know the relevant stuff they are under no obligation to tell you.

 

(**) Feeding the woodpeckers may help , though they may be high-creosote-content woodpeckers by now. On the other hand the Woodpecker Men may turn up and demand that that pole be left exactly where it is forever! Or you may be able to get the cost of necessary work due to the woodpeckers taken off your quote.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

@Lucy Murray

 

Scottish ower wayleave info, including contacts:

https://www.spenergynetworks.co.uk/pages/wayleaves.aspx

 

Ferdinand