Leak in bath screen hinge

[Dbas]

Hi all, it's our first time having a bathroom redone. We're excited it's nearly completed, all except a leak in the bath screen hinge. We've asked for this to be looked at, and someone has come back twice to fix this with an excessive amount of sealant, but water still seeps through. I attach a picture below, the blue arrows are the two places where water comes through. 

 

What else can be done? I think if we ask for the plumber/joiner to come back, he'll just add even more sealant (at this point the whole perpendicular corner has sealant on already), but it doesn't seem to solve the leaks. 

 

I'm sure the contractor just wants the bill at this stage, but we're a little reluctant to pay it with a wet floor after every shower in a brand new bathroom. Any advice is most welcomed on how we can solve the leaks!

 

thanks in advance. 

 

Edited April 30, 2017 by Dbas

[Nickfromwales]

Can we have a pic of the opposite side ( inside ) please? And a slightly zoomed out pic of the above. 

Is this a hinged panel, or fixed? 

[Dbas]

Thanks Nick. Here's a slightly zoomed out pic, and a pic on the inside. On the inside, the sealant is at the bottom horizontally and vertically. Are the pictures clear?

 

Bath screen is a hinged panel.

[Dbas]

A couple more pictures if it helps. (Excuse the shower curtain pole, we've resorted to a curtain for a temporary measure)

 

[Nickfromwales]

Thanks. 

No.1 schoolboy error here . Absolutely NO sealant whatsoever should be on the inside of the cubicle / screen. What happens is the water sprays onto the tiles and vertical wall channels and capillary action sucks water into the slight gap ( where the screen profile pushes into the wall profile ), and the water then heads down. When it gets to the bottom, the idea is that it can freely flow out under the profile ( where your fitter has sealed horizontally inside ) and onto the inside edge of the bath, and find its own way to the drain. Because your installer has not observed this critical criteria you now have water filling up inside the chrome profiles, and it's finding any way out it can eg through the gaps your first pic denotes, and the same gaps inside. 

This screen needs to be removed from the bath, just the screen, and then cleaned and refitted less the excess / incorrectly appid sealant. You will not cure this if you try and cut corners sorry. Same for the sealant at the bottom of the wall channel. 

I will also bet my left nut that they also haven't put a bead of silicone across the bath / tile junction prior to the wall profile being fitted. That will promote a different, less obvious leak, where the water that collects at the bottom of the two profiles also then finds its way between the bath and the tiles and starts to cause some serious damp / leak issues with the wall and floors, which you'll be blissfully unaware of as it'll be behind the bath panel. 

Get your fitter back, and tell him to switch his phone off. 

Edited April 30, 2017 by Nickfromwales
Additional text.

[Nickfromwales]

Ah, just confirmed my fears by checking the pics. The last one clearly shows the gap behind / under the wall tiles, void of any sealant. That should have been fundementally sealed prior to tiling, which it's clear now has not been done.  

Guilty as charged 

 

edit to add : this is common tbh, and I see it all the time. I bet this was all in the installation instructions that came with the screen too . 

[AliG]

I have this kind of screen where I stay in London. It is a rented flat.

 

Water was getting into this gap causing the wall to get damp and eventually the plasterboard needed to be replaced. The plumber replaced the screen and shower at the same time.

 

Leaking continued, I will now check to see if I have the same issue as Nick is pointing out here. What I spotted is there is a small hole at the bottom between the rubber seal and the hinge. The plumber had fitted the cheapest shower head he could find, I looked it up, £3.99. The head was very small and so the water came out at a steep angle to cover a larger area. This resulted in such a large amount of water hitting the screen that some inevitably squeezed through the small hole. I didn't bother complaining to the landlord, I just went and bought a new shower head that directs most of the water into the bath. This has helped somewhat but I still find this kind of screen a pain. If you knock it as you get in and it isn't properly aligned then water gets under it, it also gets past the end and onto the floor.

 

@Nickfromwales makes a great point re instructions. He helped me out with my new bathroom being badly fitted and it was basically down to the plumber not reading the instructions. Indeed each time he came back I printed them out for my wife to give to him and she said he just ignored them. Eventually the bathroom fitter sent a female plumber. My wife said she spent some time reading the instructions before starting and she got it all sorted out. I am a big believer that you can do anything with a clear set of instructions (within reason).

 

[Russell griffiths]

Nick is spot on you never seal the inside always need a way for water to find its way out, as it will always find its way in. 

[PeterW]

3 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Nick is spot on you never seal the inside always need a way for water to find its way out, as it will always find its way in. 

 

I've got an Aqata shower enclosure and that advises to seal with a thin bead on the inside but to leave a 150mm gap at the bottom- basically for the water to get out.  Biggest issue is where two impermeable surfaces such as a bath and a screen meet, there is nothing mechanical for the sealant to bond to so it's pretty much a question of how good is your sealant.

 

CT1 all the way now..! 

[Russell griffiths]

9 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

I've got an Aqata shower enclosure and that advises to seal with a thin bead on the inside but to leave a 150mm gap at the bottom- basically for the water to get out.  Biggest issue is where two impermeable surfaces such as a bath and a screen meet, there is nothing mechanical for the sealant to bond to so it's pretty much a question of how good is your sealant.

 

CT1 all the way now..! 

I wasn't happy about using the word never as sometimes you do seal the inside but leave a gap.  But typed it quickly, so in effect you can seal but must leave an exit point. 

[Nickfromwales]

NOT if it directly contradicts the manufacturers instructions . 

[Dbas]

Thanks so much for all your input. Ah I see what was discussed about water not being able to flow freely downwards and therefore flowing through gaps instead. 

 

 

When the plumber installed the bath screen, there was initially a hole at the bottom (blue square in 1st pic), it seems from the MI that there would be one in the bottom rubber seal. (Strange?) The joiner came a few days later to sort out the skirting, and was asked by the contractor to seal this hole. He cut the top of the rubber seal to push the whole bottom seal towards the metal hinge, hoping to close the gap, (it has since contracted back in the pic). The plumber was sub-contracted by the main contractor to do our bathroom, the main person now fixing our screen is the joiner, but maybe as you say, no matter who, I should just show him the instructions. 

 

So the solution would be to ask for all the sealant to be removed and the screen refitted? I wonder whether we would need to buy a new bottom seal or can the current one be refitted?

 

Regarding payment, the final invoice has been sent out to us, with payment due mid May. I'm not sure whether someone will be sent to sort out this problem before then. Can we hold off paying the whole bill in the meantime or will we get into trouble? We made the mistake of paying our floor guy after the floor was laid in the rest of the flat and he never came back to hang a door as agreed! I don't want to make the same mistake here and give part payment -- can I do that?

 

[AliG]

That's exactly where there is a small hole in my one. I am not sure if the hole there is unavoidable. If the hinge is to work surely there will always be a small gap between the seal and the chrome piece? I will take pics when I get to London.

[Nickfromwales]

"Silicone the outside edges only". 

I'd say hold back 25% retainer, at least the cost of a new screen and one days labour for a new fitter to come out independently ( worst case scenario ). 

Yes, the screen needs to come off. No argument there sorry. Depending upon the new fitter, the wall channel can stay on and the retro application of fundamental sealant at the bath / tile junction could be done without further damage / dismantling.  

Clear CT1 now needs to be used NOT silicone, as the surfaces will not be dry enough for silicone to adhere. 

CT1 MultiSolve spray will emulsify any silicone residue ( after the majority has been mechanically removed ) so the screen can be cleaned it's just how much silicone have they squirted in and where ?

As some quite horrendous damage can occur here, over an extended period of time, I would insist that a bathroom fitter be introduced to resolve the problem properly. 

Do you know if the bath was sealed along its edges, back to the walls, prior to tiling?

[Dbas]

Thanks very much for your help, @Nickfromwales  I'll email the contractor to ask for a bathroom fitter (-- does a bathroom fitter have a wider expertise than say a plumber or a joiner who might be more specialised?)

 

The bath was sealed along its edges after tiling was done, but I'm not sure whether a layer was applied prior to tiling too. Is this usually done twice?

[Nickfromwales]

42 minutes ago, Dbas said:

The bath was sealed along its edges after tiling was done, but I'm not sure whether a layer was applied prior to tiling too. Is this usually done twice?

Absolutely. Not done "twice" but two separate applications, each done once. 

A lot of plumbers haven't got a clue about sealing a shower screen. I've seen it time and time again. 

The person who fitted this did it badly, so at the very least you don't want them back. Just makes you wonder how many ticking time bombs this guy has left in his wake . 

[PeterW]

9 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

I wasn't happy about using the word never as sometimes you do seal the inside but leave a gap.  But typed it quickly, so in effect you can seal but must leave an exit point. 

 

I agree - it's the first time I had seen it and I queried it with the fitter. 

[Vijay]

I personally think the fitter should be ashamed of themselves leaving a job with that much silicone over it. Sorry but they have no pride in their work

[Dbas]

Just heard back from the contractor who's coming to take a look tomorrow. He was a plumber by trade, so -- thanks for all your input -- I'll start questioning if no sealant is removed but even more added again  

Here's to hoping he's able to resolve this once and for all. 

[Nickfromwales]

If the screen doesn't come off, it won't be resolved. Stick to your guns. 

[Dbas]

An update:

The contractor came and redid the sealant, but water still leaked. Then, using a spirit level, he found that a corner of the bath was dipping (towards the wall). It was in fact just part of the bath corner that wasn't level (where the blue arrow is in the pic below), and not the whole corner . This was enough to cause water to pool in that corner of the bath tub though, and then spill out. 

 

He will be back with the guy who fitted our bathroom. It seems we have two options:

 

1. Remove the row of tiles that are directly above the bath tub and prop that corner up with a wooden piece below the bath, then redo the tiles. 

 

2. Don't remove the tiles, but just push that corner of the tub up.

 

My concern though: if we are propping this corner up - forcing it up effectively - so that the whole bath is level, after a few years would the other end of the bath sink down as a result? Our bath is an acrylic one, not the sturdiest of baths, but I gather acrylic is quite common. 

 

Should we add a third option: change tub to a steel one?

 

I'm sure the bathroom fitter would suggest the quickest solution, understandably. But I would prefer a long term solution, instead of having problems crop up again in a couple of years from having a quick fix now. 

 

Any advice? 

[Onoff]

Won't just be one foot that needs adjusting imo. You lift one corner and the diagonal to it will stay there but the other two and centre one will all lift up. Nick will be along shortly!

Edited May 5, 2017 by Onoff

[Mr Punter]

I have had issues with these screens.  I no longer spec any shower screens around baths as they can lead to callbacks.

[Nickfromwales]

@Onoff The proposal isn't to lift one of the legs, it's to wedge a batten under the actual dog ear corner of the bath.

Forcing the cast acrylic where it doesn't want to go will go badly imo, but you should go back to the bath manufacturer here.......except that you can't ( as you cannot complain about a defective bath AFTER you've fitted it in error ). 

 

Lets clear up some nonsense here.....

This is a shower over a bath. 

Question #1 is

"is this a rated and fit for purpose SHOWER BATH"? You can buy a bath which is NOT for using in conjunction with standing and showering, and then you can buy one specifically for doing so, eg a 'shower bath'. NOT a P-shape or D-shape space saver etc etc just a bath that the manufacturer CLEARLY STATE IN BLACK AND WHITE that is suitable for use as so described. That type of product will go through more strenuous manufacturing tolerances, be beefed up accordingly as to where you'll be standing whilst showering etc, and typically have flatter smoother upper decks specifically tailored to accept a screen, and deflect / divert water from standing on said decks. 

Find out which one you have. 

 

Qurstion #2

Has everyone forgotten that this is a screen for a shower ?!?  Of course it's got water standing / pooling at the bottom ITS A BLOODY SHOWER !!! The screen installation is ? REGARDLESS of what bath is there, IT STILL SHOULDN'T LEAK !

You should be able to have water INDIRECTLY spraying against that without issue, if it doesn't then it's a bad screen or it's been fitted poorly. It does seem that we've a mixture of both here......if the manufacturer hasn't allowed for anyone to actually use the shower. 

 

Some more info re the above ( #1 ) please   

 

[Nickfromwales]

10 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

I have had issues with these screens.  I no longer spec any shower screens around baths as they can lead to callbacks.

100% with you. I even have a shower curtain in my own house. 

Ref the hinged screens, fwiw I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole, but we are where we are. 

@Dbas, if your into removing tiles, and the bath turns out to be unfit for purpose, then I'd seriously consider a square ( D-shaped ) shower bath with a half fixed / half hinged screen. 

Not the best news TBH, but this problem is only being moved side to side at the moment and not fixed. Wedging the edge of the acrylic may work, but I think the bath with crack over time with use and the stress of not being able to move accordingly