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Some HA bits to give away for freeee (KNX/Dali/modbus)


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Left over from my build, all using protocols I decided not to go with in the end

1x GIRA KNX bus PSU (2nd hand from ebay)

1x Theben ts8f-2-e 8 way KNX digital input

7x Osram 350-1050mA constant current DALI LED dimmers (2nd hand from ebay)

1x 32 way modbus digital input (aliexpress special)

 

Yours for the cost of P&P (or free free for collection in Herts or N1C London).  If you feel compelled, or there's strong competition for any item, donations to buildhub coffers or shelter welcome ? 

 

 

PXL_20220109_134717297.thumb.jpg.c8f367489149f5b5b0eda7b6659c089f.jpg

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very generous of you. I'm not planning on using KNX or Dali in my Loxone system so no real use to me otherwise I'd have snapped it up! ?

 

Edited by Thorfun
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On 09/01/2022 at 13:57, joth said:

Left over from my build, all using protocols I decided not to go with in the end

 

Interested in these bits, also interested in why you decided not to go with Dali or KNX?

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8 hours ago, freshy said:

 

Interested in these bits, also interested in why you decided not to go with Dali or KNX?

Everything except 3 Dali dimmers still available to claim!

 

I had a good go with KNX but the end decision was easy: programming it was a chore and always on an annoying learning curve, wheras Loxone was fun, and I wanted this to be a fun project. I could see with KNX I could make something that would work as well as conventional light switches, but once there I'd never want to touch it again and I'd rapidly lose memory of how to program it at all. ETS is a dog, and the whole ecosystem, is just stacked with compromises and paying over the odds for essentially 30+ year old technology.

Loxone programming software is an absolute joy to use in comparison, and I get great fun making improvements to it. Maybe too much fun! This project is never going to be "finished" ?

 

DALi was a tougher call, and often wish I had stuck to original plan and used it. I think the main downside was cost, especially as the Loxone Dali extensions are very limited and expensive. DMX was already familiar to me from theatre lighting, and is cheaper and more flexible. I have DMX driving SSRs for heating controls, blinds, towel rails, all sorts now.

 

Modbus was simply not useful for inputs in Loxone, as it has a max polling rate once per 5s.  For anything responding to human action that's useless. I successfully tested polling it from ESP2866 chip, and it also has TCP/IP support so I thought it might get used somewhere eventually but seems I never did!

 

I do use modbus (from ESP) for energy monitors. 

 

Edited by joth
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Thank you for the insight, it's useful and gives me food for thought.

 

I'm currently at the stage (doing the lighting plan) where I can start to think about HA and my current idea is Loxone with Dali lighting, i've not thought about DMX, so may have to pick your brain more later!

 

Please can I claim the remaining Dali kit?

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, joth said:

I had a good go with KNX but the end decision was easy: programming it was a chore and always on an annoying learning curve, wheras Loxone was fun, and I wanted this to be a fun project. I could see with KNX I could make something that would work as well as conventional light switches, but once there I'd never want to touch it again and I'd rapidly lose memory of how to program it at all. ETS is a dog, and the whole ecosystem, is just stacked with compromises and paying over the odds for essentially 30+ year old technology.

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

I replaced a load of crappy dimmers with a Theben 8 channel KNX dimmer unit. Great hardware quality, and it's been rock solid for well over a year. Even so, I found the whole ecosystem so unintuitive to set up that there's no way I'll stick with it in the future when this unit needs replacing. As you say, I'd be starting from scratch again, trying to figure out what arcane set of hoops they want me to jump through to set it up.

 

4 hours ago, joth said:

Loxone programming software is an absolute joy to use in comparison, and I get great fun making improvements to it. Maybe too much fun! This project is never going to be "finished"

 

Six years later I still enjoy opening up the Loxone config software to tweak or add things. It's wonderfully intuitive. I'm hardly scratching the surface with what I've done (dimmers, blinds, basic ASHP control, alarm) - I plan to do more stuff when (let's face it, if!) I have the time. 

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29 minutes ago, freshy said:

Please can I claim the remaining Dali kit?

 

They're yours! I'll send a PM

 

29 minutes ago, freshy said:

I'm currently at the stage (doing the lighting plan) where I can start to think about HA and my current idea is Loxone with Dali lighting, i've not thought about DMX, so may have to pick your brain more later!

 

 FWIW my process was fairly backwards: choosing wiring standard, then the application programming tools, then the dimmer protocols, then built up my cabinet, then did the lighting design. I panicked at the last stage and contracted a professional lighting designer and then eventually realized that getting the design right, then choosing the dimming protocols based on the models available that meet the  lighting requirements, then from that selecting the protocols and building the cabinet.

 

That said, it's definitely worth having a splunk with the various parts first so you can rule out any non-starters you just don't get on with.  The only thing I'd reiterate about DALI is it's very expensive to get started with on Loxone (over £1k for a miniserver and the DALI extensions), but @Dan F is investigating an IP / microcoontroller based alternative DALI driver and maybe will share with the community if it proves successful? 

 

 

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4 hours ago, joth said:

DALi was a tougher call, and often wish I had stuck to original plan and used it. I think the main downside was cost, especially as the Loxone Dali extensions are very limited and expensive.

 

We are using DALI and very happy with the decision so far.  Upstairs downlights are all on a one Loxone DALI extension, but by the time I add in low-level lighting, LED's and exterior lighting this would require 2-3 DALI extensions which as @joth rightly points out are expensive at around £450 each.  It is only £7 per fitting, but the thing is, you need an address for all fittings (which you then group), whereas centralized dimmers can drive a whole circuit each.  It does give you a lot of flexibikity though; for example there is one wall-washer in the breakfast area that shines on TV screen, which I can easily individually switch off depending on the lighting mood (or even if TV is on if I wanted to using smart plug).

 

Before I go out and buy more than Loxone DALI extensions though I have one of these I got off of amazon which I plan to try to use https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B081TNRGMN/.  This is good for 4 channels (256 devices) and needs a DALI power supply and Raspberry Pi and some minimal coding, but I'm pretty confident it'll work from my initial tests, it's just a simple ReST call out fro Loxone to Rapberry.  Tunable white will be slightly more challenging, but no rush to get that working.

Edited by Dan F
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49 minutes ago, Dan F said:

Before I go out and buy more than Loxone DALI extensions though I have one of these I got off of amazon which I plan to try to use https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B081TNRGMN/.  This is good for 4 channels (256 devices) and needs a DALI power supply and Raspberry Pi and some minimal coding, but I'm pretty confident it'll work from my initial tests, it's just a simple ReST call out fro Loxone to Rapberry.  Tunable white will be slightly more challenging, but no rush to get that working.

Ah yes, looks like someone else on the internet has similar needs to you ?

 

image.png.94b8c75c688d2399aeb8d3b29501cf50.png

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Maybe there are others trying to the same, but those two questions are me! ?   

 

16 minutes ago, joth said:

Ah yes, looks like someone else on the internet has similar needs to you ?

 

image.png.94b8c75c688d2399aeb8d3b29501cf50.png

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Dan F said:

 

Before I go out and buy more than Loxone DALI extensions though I have one of these I got off of amazon which I plan to try to use https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B081TNRGMN/.  This is good for 4 channels (256 devices) and needs a DALI power supply and Raspberry Pi and some minimal coding, but I'm pretty confident it'll work from my initial tests, it's just a simple ReST call out fro Loxone to Rapberry.  Tunable white will be slightly more challenging, but no rush to get that working.

 

This looks very interesting, do let us know how you get on.

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Just now, freshy said:

 

This looks very interesting, do let us know how you get on.

 

It was really quite easy to get working with simple dimming and everything you need code-wise to do it is available online, I just haven't hooked it up to our install yet as we only recently moved and so ground floor lighting is all on a relay for now  It was tunable white, which uses the more complex DT8, that needs more coding to get to work and expose via an API from Pi.  Expensive as it is, the Loxone DALI extension achas an issue with DT8 anyway, with some devices at least (including the EldoLED drivers we are using for LED's);  if a device supports both DT6 and DT8, rthen ather than use DT8 or let you choose, Loxone fails to recognise the device type at all!

 

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