joth Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 Left over from my build, all using protocols I decided not to go with in the end 1x GIRA KNX bus PSU (2nd hand from ebay) 1x Theben ts8f-2-e 8 way KNX digital input 7x Osram 350-1050mA constant current DALI LED dimmers (2nd hand from ebay) 1x 32 way modbus digital input (aliexpress special) Yours for the cost of P&P (or free free for collection in Herts or N1C London). If you feel compelled, or there's strong competition for any item, donations to buildhub coffers or shelter welcome ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) very generous of you. I'm not planning on using KNX or Dali in my Loxone system so no real use to me otherwise I'd have snapped it up! ? Edited January 9, 2022 by Thorfun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 Shame I have no interest in HA, or I could have come over and picked them up. Just up the road from you at the moment (relatively speaking). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roys Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) Wouldn’t mind a couple of Dali dimmers. Can pay you through PayPal. PM sent Thank you for the kind offer Edited January 9, 2022 by Roys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freshy Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 On 09/01/2022 at 13:57, joth said: Left over from my build, all using protocols I decided not to go with in the end Interested in these bits, also interested in why you decided not to go with Dali or KNX? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, freshy said: Interested in these bits, also interested in why you decided not to go with Dali or KNX? Everything except 3 Dali dimmers still available to claim! I had a good go with KNX but the end decision was easy: programming it was a chore and always on an annoying learning curve, wheras Loxone was fun, and I wanted this to be a fun project. I could see with KNX I could make something that would work as well as conventional light switches, but once there I'd never want to touch it again and I'd rapidly lose memory of how to program it at all. ETS is a dog, and the whole ecosystem, is just stacked with compromises and paying over the odds for essentially 30+ year old technology. Loxone programming software is an absolute joy to use in comparison, and I get great fun making improvements to it. Maybe too much fun! This project is never going to be "finished" ? DALi was a tougher call, and often wish I had stuck to original plan and used it. I think the main downside was cost, especially as the Loxone Dali extensions are very limited and expensive. DMX was already familiar to me from theatre lighting, and is cheaper and more flexible. I have DMX driving SSRs for heating controls, blinds, towel rails, all sorts now. Modbus was simply not useful for inputs in Loxone, as it has a max polling rate once per 5s. For anything responding to human action that's useless. I successfully tested polling it from ESP2866 chip, and it also has TCP/IP support so I thought it might get used somewhere eventually but seems I never did! I do use modbus (from ESP) for energy monitors. Edited January 12, 2022 by joth 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freshy Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 Thank you for the insight, it's useful and gives me food for thought. I'm currently at the stage (doing the lighting plan) where I can start to think about HA and my current idea is Loxone with Dali lighting, i've not thought about DMX, so may have to pick your brain more later! Please can I claim the remaining Dali kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 4 hours ago, joth said: I had a good go with KNX but the end decision was easy: programming it was a chore and always on an annoying learning curve, wheras Loxone was fun, and I wanted this to be a fun project. I could see with KNX I could make something that would work as well as conventional light switches, but once there I'd never want to touch it again and I'd rapidly lose memory of how to program it at all. ETS is a dog, and the whole ecosystem, is just stacked with compromises and paying over the odds for essentially 30+ year old technology. I couldn't agree more. I replaced a load of crappy dimmers with a Theben 8 channel KNX dimmer unit. Great hardware quality, and it's been rock solid for well over a year. Even so, I found the whole ecosystem so unintuitive to set up that there's no way I'll stick with it in the future when this unit needs replacing. As you say, I'd be starting from scratch again, trying to figure out what arcane set of hoops they want me to jump through to set it up. 4 hours ago, joth said: Loxone programming software is an absolute joy to use in comparison, and I get great fun making improvements to it. Maybe too much fun! This project is never going to be "finished" Six years later I still enjoy opening up the Loxone config software to tweak or add things. It's wonderfully intuitive. I'm hardly scratching the surface with what I've done (dimmers, blinds, basic ASHP control, alarm) - I plan to do more stuff when (let's face it, if!) I have the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 29 minutes ago, freshy said: Please can I claim the remaining Dali kit? They're yours! I'll send a PM 29 minutes ago, freshy said: I'm currently at the stage (doing the lighting plan) where I can start to think about HA and my current idea is Loxone with Dali lighting, i've not thought about DMX, so may have to pick your brain more later! FWIW my process was fairly backwards: choosing wiring standard, then the application programming tools, then the dimmer protocols, then built up my cabinet, then did the lighting design. I panicked at the last stage and contracted a professional lighting designer and then eventually realized that getting the design right, then choosing the dimming protocols based on the models available that meet the lighting requirements, then from that selecting the protocols and building the cabinet. That said, it's definitely worth having a splunk with the various parts first so you can rule out any non-starters you just don't get on with. The only thing I'd reiterate about DALI is it's very expensive to get started with on Loxone (over £1k for a miniserver and the DALI extensions), but @Dan F is investigating an IP / microcoontroller based alternative DALI driver and maybe will share with the community if it proves successful? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan F Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, joth said: DALi was a tougher call, and often wish I had stuck to original plan and used it. I think the main downside was cost, especially as the Loxone Dali extensions are very limited and expensive. We are using DALI and very happy with the decision so far. Upstairs downlights are all on a one Loxone DALI extension, but by the time I add in low-level lighting, LED's and exterior lighting this would require 2-3 DALI extensions which as @joth rightly points out are expensive at around £450 each. It is only £7 per fitting, but the thing is, you need an address for all fittings (which you then group), whereas centralized dimmers can drive a whole circuit each. It does give you a lot of flexibikity though; for example there is one wall-washer in the breakfast area that shines on TV screen, which I can easily individually switch off depending on the lighting mood (or even if TV is on if I wanted to using smart plug). Before I go out and buy more than Loxone DALI extensions though I have one of these I got off of amazon which I plan to try to use https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B081TNRGMN/. This is good for 4 channels (256 devices) and needs a DALI power supply and Raspberry Pi and some minimal coding, but I'm pretty confident it'll work from my initial tests, it's just a simple ReST call out fro Loxone to Rapberry. Tunable white will be slightly more challenging, but no rush to get that working. Edited January 12, 2022 by Dan F 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 49 minutes ago, Dan F said: Before I go out and buy more than Loxone DALI extensions though I have one of these I got off of amazon which I plan to try to use https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B081TNRGMN/. This is good for 4 channels (256 devices) and needs a DALI power supply and Raspberry Pi and some minimal coding, but I'm pretty confident it'll work from my initial tests, it's just a simple ReST call out fro Loxone to Rapberry. Tunable white will be slightly more challenging, but no rush to get that working. Ah yes, looks like someone else on the internet has similar needs to you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan F Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 Maybe there are others trying to the same, but those two questions are me! ? 16 minutes ago, joth said: Ah yes, looks like someone else on the internet has similar needs to you ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freshy Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Dan F said: Before I go out and buy more than Loxone DALI extensions though I have one of these I got off of amazon which I plan to try to use https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B081TNRGMN/. This is good for 4 channels (256 devices) and needs a DALI power supply and Raspberry Pi and some minimal coding, but I'm pretty confident it'll work from my initial tests, it's just a simple ReST call out fro Loxone to Rapberry. Tunable white will be slightly more challenging, but no rush to get that working. This looks very interesting, do let us know how you get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan F Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 Just now, freshy said: This looks very interesting, do let us know how you get on. It was really quite easy to get working with simple dimming and everything you need code-wise to do it is available online, I just haven't hooked it up to our install yet as we only recently moved and so ground floor lighting is all on a relay for now It was tunable white, which uses the more complex DT8, that needs more coding to get to work and expose via an API from Pi. Expensive as it is, the Loxone DALI extension achas an issue with DT8 anyway, with some devices at least (including the EldoLED drivers we are using for LED's); if a device supports both DT6 and DT8, rthen ather than use DT8 or let you choose, Loxone fails to recognise the device type at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan F Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 On 12/01/2022 at 14:50, freshy said: This looks very interesting, do let us know how you get on. The one thing I forgot to mention is that, with the 4-channel version, you need to get hod of a DALI power supply for each channel. Something like: https://www.meanwell-web.com/en-gb/dali-ultra-slim-bus-power-supply-output-18-7vdc-at-dlp--04r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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