Cost Estimation Spreadsheet/BOQ

[TonyT]

1 hour ago, Zak S said:

Thanks

Thanks. Unfortunately extension/refurb and new builds are not comparable with former a lot more complicated and expensive. I did total refurb of the house 205sqm plus utility room extension and included two RSJs new flat roof c45sqm, all new bath rooms x4 from bath store when they closed down, new electrics with RCBO for each room, drainage, plumbing megaflo system, two zone fire alarms, fire doors, security alarms, CAT6 and Sat cabling across the house, new kitchens x2, new interface flooring, seven rooms with vanity units so they had to have the cold hot water and drains. All in all it costed including 20k finance on bridging £120k. It was over budget as I had assumed £60k and my builder did a runner on me so i had to ask the labour to carry on working. It was still worth it. And yes also the full k render after removing the old and the apply the base coat first and finish with scraped finish. All the gutters and facias replaced as well as internal decorating (painting) was also done.

 

Oh yes and the drive way of 120sqm done with resurfacing tarmacadem one one block border for a little extra

 

No worries, I will bow out

[Zak S]

10 minutes ago, TonyT said:

No worries, I will bow out

Hi. Sorry if it felt like it's about winning the argument. That is not my intention. I will share the result of the costing I  few months so the proof of any feasibility will be in that I suppose. This is an experiment for me so I will see how it pans put but appreciate your and every ones feedback.

[Zak S]

2 hours ago, Nick1c said:

I doubt that your project would be of sufficient scale for you to be treated as a wholesaler by manufacturers. In the event that you persuade them as a small unknown buyer you will be offered their worst terms (price & payment), even if you are buying by the artic-load.  Transport costs have skyrocketed (along with demand for building products), managing logistics & customs would be challenging. 
As a self- manager of the project organising labour will be like herding cats. A job requiring a week’s labour from each of three trades could easily take over two months….. once you have found people to do it, which itself could involve several months wait. 
I have almost finished a self-managed build, it has taken well over twice as long as it could have if it moved seamlessly forward & has cost considerably  over £2k/m2 (all costs, inc. fees & demolition, exc. plot). Access wasn’t ideal, the ground was good. The design could have been more cost-efficient (but we like it), the spec is pretty good, but not extravagant. 

There is a fine margin between confidence/optimism & delusion, misjudging it could be very costly. 
 

Hi. Thanks for sharing your recent experience. You are the ideal person to talk to in terms of helping me to bring my expectation to the realistic level. Did you go to QS before starting the project. I am not sure what was the size of your project but using 2500 as an example (assuming build is 450sqm then it would be £1.1m. Can you please help me understand what are key cost in 900k in that example).

 

I am assuming you project managed yourself but to what extent e.g. was shell done by one contractors or did you split between trades e.g. carpenter, brick layer, ground worker, foundation, drainage, roofer and windows specialist.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Happy to drop you message separately. Thanks.

[SteamyTea]

Have you got a copy of SPONS?

Maybe more useful at this stage than a spreadsheet.

[Zak S]

2 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

It cost me £600 to get my Part P electrical testing certificate.

Could easily save that on a full house rewire.

Not sure how much the equivalent GasSafe costs to do, no gas where I am.

Not sure if you actually have to be a Chartered Engineer to do all the structural calculations, for a house they are pretty basic (compared to an automobile). So you could probably do your own and let Building Control check them (just don't tell them you DIYed them).

There are probably plenty of ways to save money on a self build that are easier than buying a container full of chipboard cupboards and Chinese roof slates.

Full RCBO rewire including CCTV, Firealarm, emergency lighting, security alarm, CAT 6 and Sat and Telephone wiring for a seven bed care home costed me 3500 with all the certification. So changing v building new are just not comparable. 

Last week I had to buy xmas tree fron the garden centre and its quite upmarket garden centre and apart from live plants there is not a single thing which is not made in China. China construction industry put the the entire world to shame. So I just dont get the argument about quality. There are various level and it all needs to be researched.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Zak S

[Zak S]

3 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Have you got a copy of SPONS?

Maybe more useful at this stage than a spreadsheet.

No. I just learnt it from you and thanks for that. Seems very relevant. I will order one. I have bought and read building regs book yesterday but in the end found actual text of the rules more helpful than a summaried book. I have ordered the Builder bible. I will definitely look into SPONS as well.

[Zak S]

13 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Have you got a copy of SPONS?

Maybe more useful at this stage than a spreadsheet.

No. I just learnt it from you and thanks for that. Seems very relevant. I will order one. I have bought and read building regs book yesterday but in the end found actual text of the rules more helpful than a summaried book. I have ordered the Builder bible. I will definitely look into SPONS as well.

 

@SteamyTeado you think it's still relevant if I am planning to go to QS / online Estimates once my plans are done.

[SteamyTea]

Just now, Zak S said:

 

@SteamyTeado you think it's still relevant if I am planning to go to QS / online Estimates once my plans are done.

As a sanity check yes.

 

[Zak S]

2 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

As a sanity check yes.

 

I just downloaded a sample and it does seem very interesting so I have bought a kindle version. Thanks for the suggestion. Much appreciated. 

[SteamyTea]

3 minutes ago, Zak S said:

bought a kindle version

Send me a copy and i shall see if it is rights protected.

Though I think you can copy and past on the Kindle.

Edited December 18, 2021 by SteamyTea

[Zak S]

@SteamyTea Not sure how to share from kindle?

[Zak S]

1 hour ago, Zak S said:

 

 

As per SPONS it states the c1800 to c2250 is the going rate for the build cost for  a turn key builder including the profit. Now we can work back from this. I had a quote from a good builder but he is Albanian NHBC registered and he has 60 properties to do on his list. His rate was 1700.00. So even in there there is significant margin due to retailer profits and builder profit. Dont get me wrong this is the profit they are entitled to but what would be the cost without their profit if you take the both out of equation. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Zak S

[Russell griffiths]

18 hours ago, Zak S said:

Hi @Russell griffiths. I think it should be less. At £2000 it includes profit of the builder and the profit of retailers as well as their over heads. Why do you think its impossible to reduce by project managing yourself and focusing on procurement. You could at least remove profit for the turn key builder and for the retailers for the fitout cost. Having been involved in procurement and Retail my self, I am aware of the significant gross margin retailer charge (sometime more than 200%). My plan is not to go beyond planning stage unless I think my dream can be a reality but will definitely share my experience. 

Have you priced up any materials lately. 
since I started my project all materials have at least doubled in price. And there are talks that anything aggregate related will have another 20% on it next year. 
Then you have the labour any good lads are realising that they have been underpaid for years so anybody good is charging top dollar. So to get it cheaper you will get the rough lads. 
you say that retail has big markup, well you are not removing that, unless you remove the builders merchants. How are you buying your materials unless you buy from a merchant. 
you can buy blocks from the manufacturer, but you will need to buy an attic load for them to even talk to you. 
I would be very careful of a spread sheet with costs, as I think on a one off house you will be surprised how many little things happen on site that are not costed, you need a big contingency. 
then you will find the self build tax that trades will put on, if you build anything that looks slightly fancy you will be hit with

inflated prices, as they think you are loaded. 
there are big savings to be made project managing yourself. 
 

but don’t for a minute get the idea that a £500,000 project can be built for £350,000, the only way to do that is either do 90% yourself or cut corners. 
 

im doing this right now trying to save £200,000 on the build and the only way is doing it myself. 

[Zak S]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

you can buy blocks from the manufacturer, but you will need to buy an attic load for them to even talk to you. 

@Russell griffithshi. Many thanks. You make all the valid points. There is a saving in doing the work yourself but I think real saving is removing the retailers and you would be surprised lot of manufacturers does not have huge Min. Order. This is just a myth. I worked for group of hotels in 2003 and we always went to manufacturers and got huge discounts. As an example, in 2019, I bought 200sqm of floor from interface. They do very nice carpet tiles you can create nice design bu combining with LVT. It costed me 19.95 per sqm and I told them I am in hospitality industry bla bla bla. These same tiles were retailing at 47.00. So there is huge saving to be made by cutting the retailer. It will be mainly on fitouts not much on the shell. I think convincing the manufacturers that you are not one off is difficult but can be done with little bit imagination. 

[Haylingbilly]

I think there are a few big influences in build costs which are ground conditions, is it a level plot, house design (simple = cheap complex or cutting edge = expensive), level of your involvement,  and standard of finish. Materials I believe are roughly half the cost of the build so no matter how cheaply you buy them you can only influence half the cost of build and any delays/quality issues are going to influence the labour cost. 

I am on second fix and one of the challenges of going direct to manufacturers that I see is the lack of major purchases - most are relatively small. The only purchases I have  made over £1000 so far are

Timber frame, windows, kitchen, bricks, staircase -all  direct from manufacturer

Reinforcing mesh, concrete, roof lantern, insulation, boiler, skirtings, internal doors, tiles - all from various suppliers (generally online) - only totalling £20k

I did order a chandelier from China at a cost of £400 vs retail of £1800!

Buildcost so far is £320k on a overall budget of £400k

 

[Zak S]

4 hours ago, Andy brown said:

I think there are a few big influences in build costs which are ground conditions, is it a level plot, house design (simple = cheap complex or cutting edge = expensive), level of your involvement,  and standard of finish. Materials I believe are roughly half the cost of the build so no matter how cheaply you buy them you can only influence half the cost of build and any delays/quality issues are going to influence the labour cost. 

I am on second fix and one of the challenges of going direct to manufacturers that I see is the lack of major purchases - most are relatively small. The only purchases I have  made over £1000 so far are

Timber frame, windows, kitchen, bricks, staircase -all  direct from manufacturer

Reinforcing mesh, concrete, roof lantern, insulation, boiler, skirtings, internal doors, tiles - all from various suppliers (generally online) - only totalling £20k

I did order a chandelier from China at a cost of £400 vs retail of £1800!

Buildcost so far is £320k on a overall budget of £400k

 

Thats great. Sounds really good. I intend to buy lot more from China. I will create a chinese shopping list. @Andy brownWhat is your sqm area if you dont mind me asking please. My plan to buy more from China also come with  plan to get some of the material lab tested. E.g. roof tiles will be tested in the lab. I intend to go to China with some samples from here and bring some samples back and tested including Insulation/steel work/windows/sanitary items/marble/flooring. We will how it goes.