Partitioning Garage for Utility, ideas?

[JKami84]

Hi, all. 

 

Image shows my Garage floorplan proposal + some pictures. I seek advice on the idea I have ... but also how I go about insulating it without compromising ceiling height??

 

A door from Kitchen goes into this space. There is a step down (happy with). I now want to put up two partition stud walls to the left and right of the door that leaves the kitchen. This will create an enclosed utility space. There is already plumbing against the kitchen side we will use. There is already a window sky light in the flat roof above. The ceiling of entire garage is tidy, plastered and white and even has spotlights in the right areas that won't need moving. The walls are rendered and white, but will be plasterboarded.

 

The area to rear of new utility (larger garage section) we will also 'make tidy' to be used as a store area - potentially putting french doors and covering the waste pipe in there. . The front will remain a 'garage' albeit there isn't the length to store a car. 

 

None will be a habitable room, but I would like to make them look as 'homely' as possible. My issue is ceiling height. 

 

Current ceiling height is 2.22m. The floor just looks 'concrete' with paint on it.

 

I have been advised I should insulate floor, and ceiling. but How??

 

I guess with ceiling can knock into the ceiling and put insulation between joists? but what is the thinnest available to the ground? Is it just laid on the concrete and then I can put some vinyl down? 

 

Thinnest celotex I see is 2cm (20mm)?

 

The boiler is already in this garage, so putting a radiator in against stud wall shouldn't be an issue. 

[markc]

Insulating a floor properly would mean raising the floor height substantially or digging down to add the insulation.

any insulation is better than nothing, even a couple of layers of insulating underlay and a covering of laminate would make a big difference to painted concrete.

Roof void if there is one is the ideal place to insulate above or insulating plasterboard to the ceiling for an “easy” improvement.

is the outer wall cavity or single brick?

Edited December 15, 2021 by markc

[JKami84]

@markc - We are link detached  - the garage connects to neighbours garage So I think outer wall is more than 1 brick, looks about 20cm thick (but rendered on both sides). I know neighbours have insulated the rear part of their rear portion of garage already. 

 

I am where you are with "any insulation is better than nothing"... and as it will be a utility area (games room at most), I don't want the whole hog. 

 

So insulating underlay, yea? Do you just roll that over the concrete or leveler? 

How about 20mm celotex? 

Or 20mm Celotex, then roll of insulating underlay and then my flooring? (that is about 3.5cm, which I'd be happy with IF it makes a difference). 

 

What would be the correct order on top of the existing concrete?

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by JKami84

[saveasteading]

My suggestion. It is a hard product and can be glued to the floor, then will take carpet tiles/vinyl etc. and witshstand foot and furniture pressures.

Expensive at about £15/m2 but will last, which celotex wont without a screed over it.

This is only 10mm thick but the effect is significant, as standing in socks on a board and directly on the concrete will demonstrate.

There are some alternative manufacturers.

 

I have used this before fitting a warmup system, and it was easy. 

In a garage being improved for recreation, I might use carpet tiles on top,  as they add more insulation, and are easy to diy.

 

 

 

[JKami84]

@saveasteading - thank you for this suggestion. 10mm thick really caught my attention.

So glue onto the floor and away you go? No need for a membrane. What if I need to use leveler? 

[saveasteading]

I think I used tile adhesive, and that allows a few mm adjustment.

Otherwise self-levelling screed first.

the floor should already have a membrane under it.

 

I see there is a manhole. Yo need to keep that accessible. I would cut the insulation around and on that shape for access. Carpet tiles can be lifted, and then your boards too.

Whatever insulation you do will be fairly pointless for energy saving as there is the metal door with gaps around. The floor insulation is for comfort and feel-good.

[JKami84]

15 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

I think I used tile adhesive, and that allows a few mm adjustment.

Otherwise self-levelling screed first.

the floor should already have a membrane under it.

 

I see there is a manhole. Yo need to keep that accessible. I would cut the insulation around and on that shape for access. Carpet tiles can be lifted, and then your boards too.

Whatever insulation you do will be fairly pointless for energy saving as there is the metal door with gaps around. The floor insulation is for comfort and feel-good.

 

Well, there will be two stud walls put up as in my plan - so from the front to back  it will be metal door, then stud wall, then stud wall, and then garden door - which I'll probably replace with uPVC. The stud wall placements are where they don't interfere with the electric meter or manholes. I am hoping the enclosed stud wall area (3.5m x 2.7m) can be made as cosy as possible in minimal thickness. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by JKami84

[gaz_moose]

how can you build a partition wall between the two windows when their is a gas/electric meter between the two?

 

if you ceiling is the whole way along then pop one of the spot lights out and see if it has any insulation in it?

 

id probably put insulated plasterboard on the walls and clad it in that semi decent looking bathroom panelling. 

[JKami84]

@gaz_moose between the window and the electric meter is about 12cm of space.. been told that's OK to fit a wall in. The windows are there because originally this 'front half' of the garage was a car port. I put a garage door on front like all neighbours had and structurally the car port is same as garage (same walls and roof).

 

Good idea about checking insulation. But doubtful as this was an outside area. 

[JKami84]

@gaz_moose - ah, I can see in my sketch I put the partition wall line in wrong place... it will be 'after' the box and next to toilet window. The box and manhole will be firmly in the enclosed space. 

[Temp]

To meet Building Regs you may have to raise the floor level. They require either a sloping floor to the garage or a 100mm step up where garage meets house. This is to stop fuel leaking from a car running under the door.

 

I'm not sure a stud wall would be acceptable either. Might have to be blockwork between utility and garage? 

 

[ProDave]

6 minutes ago, Temp said:

I'm not sure a stud wall would be acceptable either. Might have to be blockwork between utility and garage? 

It would be acceptable if as a very minimum it was 2 layers of 15mm fireline plasterboard with staggered joints and joints taped and filled.

[JKami84]

@Temp.. thank you. Raising the floor by that much will seriously compromise the ceiling height. 

Also... Building regs is something I've been interested about. I'd love a scenario where I could raise the roof and make this space free flowing from the inside of the house. But I have accepted it will remain "outside" and only be functional as a utility. I've put that out there before and I was told I didn't need building regs

 

The rear room that will be created is a missed opportunity I know. By Meeting building regs it could be a good living space. However I am happy it's just a storage area and maybe in summer months a space where lads can have a drink away from family. 

 

[Temp]

Offcially you probably don't need to make a  Building Control Application (unless changing the drains or possibly DIY electrics) but you should really aim to adhere to the Building Regulations to help minimise issues if you sell up.  I would avoid making an application if you can because BCO sometimes insist on foundations below internal walls, eg not just bearing on the slab. Other times..

 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6179005/advice-on-changing-part-of-garage-to-a-utility-room

 

I had this done by a builder, cost about £7000 but that included fitting of kitchen units, and plumbing. It could be DIY if you know what to do, ours started by first building stud wall, the buildings inspector said that the bottom of the wall had to be brick to avoid any motorbike fuel leaking into house so we have 2 rows of bricks and then an insulated stud wall on top. Continues.. 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Temp

[saveasteading]

I think this is a building reg's situation.

You are changing the use of a part of the building and also the means of exit in case of fire.

If not, then they will tell you that in response and send the fee back.

 

As stated above you are best to have certification of the works for when you want to sell, and it keeps your insurance squeaky clean.

 

The fee will not be high as there is no added floor area.

Amateur drawings should suffice but do use a standard scale.

 

Do NOT show any heating or you will have to add substantial insulation.

I suggest you state, 'no space heating: local infrared  heater to suit occasional use'

There will be no need for foundations.

[JKami84]

@saveasteading Hi, Hope you had a nice Xmas. 

I'm interested to learn more about how I can ensure my plan meets building regs - whether I apply or not like @Temp has suggested.

 

I am not making a habitable room - so does that mean I don't need the amount of insulation and 'floor raising' that others have mentioned? 

Is there different criteria for building regs depending on what is being done and the usage?

 

Maybe an easier way for me to learn is to bullet point my plan below and get comments on whether acceptable or not and what I would need to do - 

 

• 2 stud walls, with fire doors will seperate the garage into 3 parts
  • the Front section will not be altered , has a roller shutter door & no car will fit as it won't be long enough. will use for usual garage junk.
  • Middle section - The part that can be accessed from the inside of the house via an existing uPVC exterior door will be used as a utility space for a sink and washing machine. 
  • Rear section will be used as storage area
• Floor - Middle and rear sections I will lay down minimal boards on the floor (like the 10mm warm-up boards suggested) and then lay some vinyl down on top.
• Ceiling / Roof - I can knock into the ceiling and put insulation (as much as can fit - maybe 100mm) between the joists and then plaster it back up.
• Sides - The existing side walls will just be plasterboarded (again I can use any that meet a requirement). The stud walls can be made as required.
• Electrics - There are already enough electric points around, I may need one for my washing machine professionally put in. lighting already exists.
• Boiler and waste Pipe are in the rear section. I'd leave as is and maybe just board around the waste pipe. 
• Heating - I remain flexible. Since boiler is already in the garage, would be so easy to put radiators on the sides where pipes do not need to go across the room. but if its a big no-no for building regs then I'd leave it.
• Rear door - currently a tatty wooden door leave the garage into garden - looking to put a uPVC door. maybe even french doors - but I know they will have an up and over step due to floor heights.

Edited December 29, 2021 by JKami84

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, JKami84 said:

I am not making a habitable room - so does that mean I don't need the amount of insulation and 'floor raising' that others have mentioned

Correct. The rules are not that you insulate a building but that you avoid wasting energy. Therefore an unheated room does not need insulation at all, so you can allow whatever you choose. 

It is also permissible to have heat from infra-red that heats the person rather than the room, but that should not be overdone (ie don't cheat)

 

So it absolutely depends on the purpose now (for regs) and in future (as common sense to save energy).

 

Also you can use more insulation where it is easy, and less where it is not practical.

The bco would want a statement on purpose/heating strategy/insulation.

1 hour ago, JKami84 said:

put radiators on the sides where pipes do not need to go across the room. but if its a big no-no for building regs then I'd leave it.

You Got It!. that would be space heating and require full insulation. You are going to get waste heat from the boiler anyway, and that doesn't count. The smaller room and doors will reduce heat waste from your boiler to the big space and cold door.

 

I would add some insulation to the walls (and internal stud wall) of the rear portion.

 

You are making changes that potentially alter the energy loss principles, and you are also changing means of access/escape so it is possible that you should apply for regs, ad then that is also available at any future sale.

But I have checked my LA page and it says 'conversion to a  habitable room'.   

Perhaps email your LA and  explain the purpose of each room and make them decide. If they reply 'no' then that equally satisfies anyone in the future.

The following table details the standard charges for certain extensions and alterations. If the work you are undertaking does not fall into any category please contact Administration

The fee is higher than I thought! £363

Conversion of garage to habitable room(s)  £363.00 

[Mike]

On 29/12/2021 at 11:00, JKami84 said:

I am not making a habitable room - so does that mean I don't need the amount of insulation and 'floor raising' that others have mentioned? 

Although used in some of the Approved Documents, the word 'habitable' doesn't actually appear in the legislation, so isn't used for determining whether or not Building Regulations apply.

 

However changing the number of rooms that are used for residential purposes does count as a 'material change of use', where a “room for residential purposes” means 'a room... which is used by one or more persons to live and sleep'. Which might well be deemed to include a utility room.

 

(By way of comparison, Approved Document B - Fire Safety - does use the term 'habitable'; kitchens are habitable, but bathrooms are not).

 

Changing the 'energy status' of a space - that is, heating or cooling the utility room - would require Building Regulations.

 

Note that some newer buildings may have planning conditions preventing the conversion of a garage.