Carrerahill Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Chriswills said: Just an update, I have been switching off and removing bits this morning to isolate the issue. It seems if I remove one of the compressor enabaling relays it works fine, heats up and does not trip. I thought eureka that it was a faulty relay, so put the KA6/1 into KA6/2 and it trips immediately. So I think its compressor related. If I leave out the relay and run it, it works fine, is this advisable in the short term as the house is rather cold now? Work out what the relay operates, whatever it controls is almost certainly your faulty bit. Good troubleshooting! What is the current rating of the relay, might give us a clue as to load type. Could be a heater coil, when they break down they can leak to earth, could be a motor, circuit issue, you might be lucky and find only the start/run capacitor has failed and leaking to earth, which is quite common actually. Could of course be worse and a motor issue though. I would try another cap first. Edited December 21, 2021 by Carrerahill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriswills Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 Am I looking for noise from here. Is this the compressor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Just now, Chriswills said: Am I looking for noise from here. Is this the compressor? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriswills Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 Compressor light is activated and no strange noises. Relay 2 is removed KA6/2. Both fans running and system pump activated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 So a big single phase compressor like that will come in with a good clunk (same but bigger/louder as your fridge in the house). You'll certainly feel it with you hand on the compressor (which will be warm if running or trying to run) and might even *see* it shudder momentarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriswills Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 13 minutes ago, dpmiller said: So a big single phase compressor like that will come in with a good clunk (same but bigger/louder as your fridge in the house). You'll certainly feel it with you hand on the compressor (which will be warm if running or trying to run) and might even *see* it shudder momentarily. I do feel heat on the pipes around it. The black unit part feels cold to touch though. No strange noises. Its the same as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Sounds like the compressor is faulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriswills Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, dpmiller said: Sounds like the compressor is faulty. Correction the compressor is warm to touch but not really hot. If that makes sense. pump has reached target temp and is ok. I’m running without the second relay. Is that ok? Otherwise it trips out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 We Don't Know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Do you have a circuit diagram to show us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 If the compressor is running, it won't be the starting capacitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 If you are feeling adventurous, unclip the trunking lids and follow the wires from the now removed relay to see what they connect to. Something won't be working as it should, so don't think it is fixed just yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Bit of googling finds Copeland compressor are a thing.... https://www.orionairsales.co.uk/copeland-compressor-157-c.asp Might be able to find someone who can check/service it? This place appears to supply a refurbished compressors... https://www.acescomp.co.uk/compressor-overhaul-and-remanufacture/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAk4aOBhCTARIsAFWFP9GSGz6q8R7CzEfbEseiJXAhY1eTq0rwEgsh9DIqC9rDy9Nx3lojSrcaAtL4EALw_wcB Including some copeland https://www.acescomp.co.uk/stock-compressors/#tab-id-4 Is there a part number on yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 4 hours ago, Chriswills said: Correction the compressor is warm to touch but not really hot. If that makes sense. pump has reached target temp and is ok. I’m running without the second relay. Is that ok? Otherwise it trips out. We can't answer that. If its using a resistance heater instead of the compressor it might work but cost you three times as much to run. Might also wear out the resistance heater faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriswills Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 58 minutes ago, Temp said: Bit of googling finds Copeland compressor are a thing.... https://www.orionairsales.co.uk/copeland-compressor-157-c.asp Might be able to find someone who can check/service it? This place appears to supply a refurbished compressors... https://www.acescomp.co.uk/compressor-overhaul-and-remanufacture/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAk4aOBhCTARIsAFWFP9GSGz6q8R7CzEfbEseiJXAhY1eTq0rwEgsh9DIqC9rDy9Nx3lojSrcaAtL4EALw_wcB Including some copeland https://www.acescomp.co.uk/stock-compressors/#tab-id-4 Is there a part number on yours? Here’s a picture of mine. Are they straightforward to change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 For a fridge engineer, yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriswills Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, dpmiller said: For a fridge engineer, yes. I can probably get someone to change it over if needed, just need to be 100% thats what it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 you'll need a good electrician then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Fault finding by substitution rarely works. You are suggesting replacing the most expensive part, that requires an FGAS engineer to degas the system, swap the compressor, leak test the reworked pipework and re gas it. And all that might prove is there was nothing wrong with the compressor. Please seek out a better electrician first, someone that has experience of machinery / control systems would be good. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriswills Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, dpmiller said: Do you have a circuit diagram to show us? These are the circuit diagrams from the manual, so just to re-iterate, I have removed KA6/2 and it works! Could it be the compressor starter......A5.....shown in pictures too? Edited December 21, 2021 by Chriswills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 1 hour ago, ProDave said: Fault finding by substitution rarely works. You are suggesting replacing the most expensive part, that requires an FGAS engineer to degas the system, swap the compressor, leak test the reworked pipework and re gas it. And all that might prove is there was nothing wrong with the compressor. Please seek out a better electrician first, someone that has experience of machinery / control systems would be good. +1 Don't change it until that's been shown to be the problem. I was just looking to see if it was even possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Chriswills said: Could it be the compressor starter......A5.....shown in pictures too? Yes and possibly the start capacitor C1. A5 has live and neutral so a short there would cause overcurrent. If A5 or C1 is faulty the compressor motor may not start start running and that can cause low torque and over current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriswills Posted December 22, 2021 Author Share Posted December 22, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Temp said: Yes and possibly the start capacitor C1. A5 has live and neutral so a short there would cause overcurrent. If A5 or C1 is faulty the compressor motor may not start start running and that can cause low torque and over current. How can I test these items or should I just replace them. I’ll post some pics of them in more detail ASAP. the compressor seems to be warm and running though. Would it not work if either of these were faulty? Edited December 22, 2021 by Chriswills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 KA6 appears to be switching "R1" which might be a resistance heating element as well as the compressor. The diagram does not tell us which is KA6-1 and which is KA6-2 Is there a parts list or anything else that says more about what R1 is? Have you sat and listened to the unit while it is working? You would know if the compressor is starting and stopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 R1 is listed as compressor crankcase heater. Seems as though there's an Insulation Resistance breakdown in the compressor housing. Running that heater element in isolation (not via an RCD) may restore its integrity. Moisture may have been accumulating and now we're in the colder seasons the heater is coming on and tripping. Infrequently used cooker elements have the same habit of tripping when used for the first time in a long while. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now