the perfect weekend?

[ragg987]

Just saw this on my PV monitoring - a pair of beauties to remind me of the weekend of 8 and 9 April:

 

 

It was great to bask in the spring sunshine and warmth on that west facing patio, barbie tongs in one hand and a drink in the other.

 

Moments like this are what make that long 3 year slog of a self-build (from purchase of site to moving in) really worth it, so for those of you who are at the early part of the journey, I say "it all worked out excellent in the end, so persevere".

Edited April 11, 2017 by ragg987
image did not paste first time...

[MikeSharp01]

Great curves! What is the azimuth and elevation of your array? Looks almost perfect due south +/- BST!

 

[ragg987]

Within about 5 degrees of magnetic south, 40 degrees roof pitch, almost perfect for maximising PV.

 

We do have some trees on the east side that cut off early morning direct light, you can see that small wiggle on the left side.

[Jeremy Harris]

We had a similar weekend, probably the best we've had for this time of year.  Our peak output seems to be down a bit, though, and when I looked at the panels they do seem a bit dirty.  Not sure of the best way to clean 40+m² of in-roof panels, I'd rather hoped that they would self-clean from the rain, but it looks almost as if they have started to attract green algae or lichen.  Maybe a pole window cleaning rig would work, I need to have a hunt around to see if anyone else has come up with a good way of cleaning them.

[PeterW]

6 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

We had a similar weekend, probably the best we've had for this time of year.  Our peak output seems to be down a bit, though, and when I looked at the panels they do seem a bit dirty.  Not sure of the best way to clean 40+m² of in-roof panels, I'd rather hoped that they would self-clean from the rain, but it looks almost as if they have started to attract green algae or lichen.  Maybe a pole window cleaning rig would work, I need to have a hunt around to see if anyone else has come up with a good way of cleaning them.

 

Think @Ferdinand bought something to do his.

 

[Declan52]

The guy who does my windows uses a long reach pole and cleans mine.

[Jeremy Harris]

Any idea how high a pole can go, @Declan52? 

 

Our panels are tucked behind a gable, that may make getting at the top ones in the centre a bit difficult.

[Declan52]

The top of my panel is one tile from my ridge , chalet bungalow, and he can get it. Reckon it would be 7-8m reach. So even if you aren't tall a step ladder would get you that extra bit of height of you needed it.

 

[ragg987]

How long before you noticed the growth on your panels, @jsharris ? Ours have been up about 12 months (though commissioned later) and i did not see any growth when I poked my head through the skylight.

[Onoff]

A water fed pole using "pure water" / de-ionized water if you want everything streak free. Like this:

 

http://www.ionicsystems.co.uk/en/on-site.php

 

You'll need deep pockets though!

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

I have one of these poles for the windows at millstone manor 5m reach plus my 2m. They go up to 16m and are great  for cleaning the soffits and facias. I have tried to get the portable pump pack, and use the dehumidifier to make the ionised water, but it seems never to be in stock. 

 

[CC45]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

A water fed pole using "pure water" / de-ionized water if you want everything streak free. Like this:

 

http://www.ionicsystems.co.uk/en/on-site.php

 

You'll need deep pockets though!

 

 

Water from a dehumidifier any good?  Our iron seems to run far better on it compared to our (hard) tap water.

[Onoff]

5 minutes ago, CC45 said:

Water from a dehumidifier any good?  Our iron seems to run far better on it compared to our (hard) tap water.

 

Not sure. Water from a dehumidifier has I think less minerals than normal but isn't anywhere as pure as distilled water.

 

The commercial reach 'n wash systems are connected to a tap or fed from a damn great tank in a van. 

[Ferdinand]

9 hours ago, PeterW said:

 

Think @Ferdinand bought something to do his.

 

 

There is a thread about it here, @PeterW:

 

I have a 3 section hose-attached aluminium telescopic pole not unlike @MikeSharp01 which is 26ft = just under 8m. There is a shorter 17ft 2 section version. Costs are £95 and £50 respectively.

 

It is a professional one from a firm called HG Promotions, and attaches to a hose. The web page is - shall we say -  "keyword optimised":

 

http://www.hgpromotions.com/products/6/Solar_Panel_CleanerIdeal_for_removing_salt_spray_seagull_mess_in_coastal_locations_Water_Fed_Pole

 

Add ons available include inline detergent device (£10), hand pressurised 5l pump water supply (£25) for hosepipe bans (and 16l backpack version £40). Various types of head include cloth, brush, double sided, a swan-neck for leaves in gutters, and an inline lever-turn-off device.

 

For this @JSHarris I think you would be looking at the inline supply with the applicator, using an appropriate liquid. I have not tried the inline detergent device which attaches to the hose, but I expect such things tend to eat money if used with the branded product regularly. Diluted oxygen bleach or similar?

 

I guess one could also try attaching copper or zinc wire to the top of each panel, which sounds painful.

 

My main panel array starts at about 7ft with 6 rows of horizontal panels, so the shorter pole was not quite enough. I have not tried cleaning the ones on the high gables,thought it would reach, as my main issues are trees and pigeons. 

 

The setup is robust enough for what it does. If you order online as a consumer you have a right to return.

 

I would *never* be using something like a pole on top of any ladder or steps (very bad idea imo). Hop up step or work platform ... maybe, but in that case the longer one is better. Up and down or tilting some way off centre is fine (I have to do 40 degrees off which is too much die to a garage). 

 

My intention is to clean panels 2 or 3 times a year. The window cleaner was proposing a charge which would pay for it in 12 months (we have 35 panels of which 28 are in the main array).

 

A couple of pics with the "porcupine" microfibre-with-rubber-bits cloth. More on the other thread.

 

Mike's system seems to be more extensive, but also more expensive. Perhaps also lighter since carbon fibre.

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited April 12, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

6 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

Not sure. Water from a dehumidifier has I think less minerals than normal but isn't anywhere as pure as distilled water.

 

The commercial reach 'n wash systems are connected to a tap or fed from a damn great tank in a van. 

 

Unlikely to be enough. They run at ~2 litres per minute.

 

You would need water butt volumes at least and even that could be limiting.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

Reflecting on the pros and cons.

 

* Mike system: Gardiner eg 

 

Weight: 1080g for 5m pole dry.

Cost: £108 for 5m 50% carbon pole including brush head and gooseneck. 4 sections with thumb lever clamps.

Cost: £199 for 7m 65% carbon pole including brush head and gooseneck. 6 sections with thumb lever clamps.

System: Some assembly required. Internal hose. Shorter. Extension sections can be added later.

 

* Ferdinand system: H&G Promotions

 

Weight: 1.6kg for 5m pole dry.

Cost: £59 for 5m anodised aluminium pole including microfibre head. 2 sections with twist clamp.

Cost: £95 for 5m aluminium pole including microfibre head. 3 sections with twist clamp.

System: Plug and play. External coiled hose. Shorter.

 

* Comment:

 

The Gardiner system looks more thoroughly designed for a variety of professional uses, but the accessories seem to be quite a bit more expensive. The H&G is more 'plug and play'. 

 

Watch out for "working height"  rather than "pole length" measurements as they add 2m for your own height.

 

The Gardiner looks a lot easier to end up spending £500 or £750 through enthusiasm for accessories, while the H&G is less flexible but good enough for everything most of us may need. 

 

The Gardiner will be easier to get in a small car I expect, if necessary - but is perhaps a bit more fiddly to adjust.

 

For smaller or older people the weight difference may be significant.

 

* Conclusion

 

I would be favorable toward the Gardiner if I was needing to go straight for panels on a 2nd storey roof, were small or older, or knew I would need flexibility and transport. But you pay for it as prices seem to be double.

 

I would be favourable to the H&G if I knew the envelope of task I needed, and it did not go beyond conservatory / 1st Floor Windows or solar panels less than bungalow roof height, or if I can run the longer H&G pole up panels on a roof with a low gutter (eg as in my own situation). 

 

Would love to see a report on the longer poles within Gardiner system.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Jeremy Harris]

11 hours ago, ragg987 said:

How long before you noticed the growth on your panels, @jsharris ? Ours have been up about 12 months (though commissioned later) and i did not see any growth when I poked my head through the skylight.

 

It seems to have only started this winter, so a bit over two years.  I'm not sure what's changed, but I've noticed more green algae growing on other surfaces recently, too.  Our roof faces South, with a pitch of 45 deg, and I'd hoped that they would stay cleaner than they have.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

@Ferdinand, Many thanks for the comprehensive reply.  I will do a bit of hunting around.  I'm not sure whether to just buy a pole or whether to find a window cleaner with one, as I can clean all the windows OK by hand, so it would only get used for cleaning the PV panels maybe once a year.

 

@Declan52, Thanks for the info, our ridge is around 7m high, with a 45 deg pitch, so, allowing for the angle a 10m "working height" pole should just about do it from ground level.

Edited April 12, 2017 by JSHarris

[ragg987]

From a cost-basis, is it worth cleaning at all? £100 in specialist cleaning tools would require about 1,500 kWh of power to break-even at current FIT rates. Is cleaning really going to make that much difference?

[Jeremy Harris]

For us, £100 is around 600 kWh just in FIT payments, plus the increase cost from additional imported electricity.  We get around £1000 - £1100 per year from FIT plus export payments, and probably save another £200 (probably a fair bit more) from not importing, so a cleaning system at £100 could pay for itself in a year fairly easily, as I think the reduction in peak power we're seeing at the moment is around 10%.  I've not seen generation over 5.5 kW in peaks, whereas I was seeing well over 6 kW, so it looks like we could have lost around 10% already.

[PeterW]

Is it worth treating the panels with something like Rain-X or one of the self cleaning window products ..??

[Jeremy Harris]

It might be, but it would be pretty difficult to treat them now they are up, as I seem to remember that Rain-X needs to be buffed off when dry (may have changed, the last time I used it was to treat my aircraft windscreen).

[billt]

If you have panels at a low angle in a dusty environment, or have a big issue with bird droppings it may be worth cleaning them occasionally, but it's a waste of money and effort to clean them for normal installations in a clean environment.

 

Our first installation was done in June 2011 and as it's effectively at a third floor level it's impossible to clean without a cherry picker. There is no sign of any output reduction due to either dirt or panel aging.

 

First full year generated 3559 kWhr.

Best year was the 3rd year with 3751 kWhr.

Last year (5th full year) generated 3679 kW hr, 1.9% down on the best year and 3.4% up on the worst year.

 

If dirt was a real issue there should be some clear drop in output, but there isn't any.

[Jeremy Harris]

The snag is that there is visible algal growth on our panels, plus I'm sure the peak output has dropped.  I'll try and remember to bring a camera over tomorrow and take some photos of the green stuff on the panels.

 

Last weekend we should have seen a peak of well over 6 kW, based on the peak output we've seen before in bright sunshine, yet the maximum was only around 5.5 kW.  We haven't hit the inverter limit once yet, and I'd have expected the inverter to be limiting for a couple of hours either side of midday last weekend.

[Onoff]

Come on the mechanically minded, who's gonna be first?