Pagurek - Standing Seem roof

[pstunt]

Hi,

I am looking for peoples opinions / experiences regarding Pagurek Standing Seem roofs.

 

First off, I should say that I appreciate Patrick is on this site and he has been extremely helpful, so in asking these questions I am not being critical.

 

We have full planning to convert and extend an old stable and have identified a possible builder who has suggested using Pagurek for our standing seem roof, as opposed to Merlin Metals Snaplock panel, which is what my architect is proposing. I have included a couple of mock up CAD pictures which give you an idea of the build. 

 

One downside to Pagurek is that 8m lengths is the biggest they do, where as Merlin do 12m lengths. Our extensions are about 11m in width. Which would mean having staggered seems. Not a deal braker per se, but not ideal. I should state that Pagurek ( Patrick ) advised that they suggest having no more than 6m lengths any way as they become difficult to handle. Which makes sense to me. 

 

Obviously I would like to keep costs down but not at the price of losing quality / finish.

 

Areas that also concern me are how the rooflights would fit and the flashing around them. 

 

Love to hear your comments and thoughts

 

Paul

 

[IanR]

The renderings looks great. Standing seam really compliments the buildings in my view.

I can't help with the choice between two different, steel, pre-formed panel brands, I've not used steel, but I have looked at loads as well as aluminium, zinc and copper while deciding what to use on my own roof.

 

Pre-formed steel appears to give a more clinical, consistent seaming, and from what I looked at tends to show less deformation in the panels. ie. the final result will not always look like the renderings and the brochures, but steel tends to show less distortions and warps. Maybe it's more forgiving to a less well-prepared deck and poor handling.

 

The downsides of using a less ductile steel though is that to my eyes it doesn't look quite the same as a traditional seamed roof, partly because it has less of the idiosyncrasies of a zinc/copper/aluminium roof, but also, due to its less ductile nature, other materials need to be introduced for areas such as flashing to roof lights. There are sometimes flashing kits available that match roof lights to certain brands of steel roof, but that may narrow your choice. The worst case is that you'll need some flexi rubber flashing to integrate the roof lights, vent pipes etc..

 

My personal choice was to have everything made and formed on site, out of a one material, straight from the coil, to give the look of a traditional seamed roof. I went with Aluminium as it was similarly priced to steel. Forming on site gets you away from issues over panel length, although my roofers wouldn't go over 13m due to difficulties with handling. It also allows for bespoke trims, verges and flashings etc. The idiosyncrasies match well to my agricultural setting, but I do have minimal warping and deformation compared to some I have seen. Darker colours with a matt finish tend to disguise any imperfections.

[Russell griffiths]

I used a pre formed panel at 10960 long as I didn’t want joins as I have a low pitch 10 degrees. 

The job I’m on at the moment is being hand formed on site so any shape or length you want. 

I cannot believe for a minute that I could afford the hand formed version. 

 

Have you priced the different options up. 

 

I chose mine by getting some samples very early on and throwing them on the floor and standing on them with gravel stuck to my boots. 

 

The hand rolled aluminium version is very soft and I felt a twig of a close tree would leave a dent in it. 

 

 

 

[pstunt]

Thanks for the responses

We have had a zinc quote, supply and fit, in the region of £96K and around 80K for the Merlin Snaplock. 

Pagurek was substantially less.

 

Interesting idea on how to test the metals by standing on them. The Pagurek sample is a healthy sized off cut of a panel but the Merlin metal is a small purpose made sample the size of a playing card, so it's so hard to compare the differences.

[IanR]

Zinc pricing for me came in around £110 - £120 /m²

 

I paid around £55/m² for aluminium installed (not including OSB deck). My roof is Falzonal from Novellis

 

Which ever metal roof you have, don't walk on it in work boots with stones in the soles. I always put trainers on when I go up on the roof.

[JohnMo]

I went a slightly different route, and used Sarnafil S327.

 

Fully welded standing seam, but not metal.  Can be installed by only approved and qualified installer, came out at £70 per m2 with felt underlay installed. 

 

We have fully voulted ceilings and didn't want rain on steel noise.

[markc]

Sarnafil S327 is a tough fabric, we have put up a lot of fabric roof structures made from it.

amazing how much tension you can put into it. Doesn’t rip, no problem waking on it.

[pstunt]

15 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

I went a slightly different route, and used Sarnafil S327.

 

Fully welded standing seam, but not metal.  Can be installed by only approved and qualified installer, came out at £70 per m2 with felt underlay installed. 

 

We have fully voulted ceilings and didn't want rain on steel noise.

 

Thanks. I had not heard of Sarnafil before. I will take a look.

 

Perhaps foolishly, I was of the understanding that if the roof construction was done in the right way, then rain noise wouldn't be any greater an issue than standard materials like slate tiles.

 

We also have vaulted ceilings

Edited November 4, 2021 by pstunt

[IanR]

14 minutes ago, pstunt said:

Perhaps foolishly, I was of the understanding that if the roof construction was done in the right way, then rain noise wouldn't be any greater an issue than standard materials like slate tiles.

 

Correct, there's no additional noise from a standing seam metal roof on a deck, than for other standard roofing materials.

Profiled metal roofs, directly on to purlins, without a deck, can be noisy, but that's not a typical residential build up.

[Russell griffiths]

My roof is noisy, but I don’t think it is any noisier than a slate roof, it’s the vaulted ceiling bit I think. 

No matter what build up you use you are only 350-400mm from you inside to the rain outside. 

 

Its not unpleasant but you certainly know when it’s raining. 

[makie]

3 hours ago, JohnMo said:

I went a slightly different route, and used Sarnafil S327.

 

Fully welded standing seam, but not metal.  Can be installed by only approved and qualified installer, came out at £70 per m2 with felt underlay installed. 

 

We have fully voulted ceilings and didn't want rain on steel noise.

 

Just want to point out that they say only approved installers can use it but I've seen multiple people use it after buying it online. Do your research on everyone first.

[pstunt]

I think we have decided to go with the Pagurek standing seem roof but at the same time as coming to this decision, I received an email from Patrick ( Pagurek ) which I thought was super helpful / informative and wanted to share the comments on this group. If their product is anything like their customer servcie then everything should work out great.

 

"The roof you are planning is quite unique - so it depends on how visible you picture that it will be (from the top) to choose the roof - our lengths can’t be done in the full lengths - so if the full lengths are vital to you, you probably better off to go to one of the companies that do longer then 8m lengths .

Just to give you a bit of understanding how this all works - maybe it helps your decision:

-Roof panels can be produced in any lengths - a roll of steel is around 1000m , so theoretically- 1000m is the limit.

Now, every company chooses to have a different cut-off point for lengths they offer.

Ours is 8m , others is 9 or 10, some even 12 meter.

The issue that comes with longer panels is

1. Transport

2. Installation 

3, Precision in the Panel production 

 

I think No1 is quite clear as well as NO2 (installing a long panel is more difficult/needs more men to get it right and manoeuvre the panels onto the roof)

No3 is the part that is not thought about in depths by most consumers :

A Panel is usually formed in a large forming machine.

If this machine (like in our case) is producing a click mechanism - this mechanism has to be spot on within a few mm tolerance over a distance of X meters. The longer you produce the panels in- the more likely it is that a very small (few MM) discrepancy is working out as a major fault and the panels are put under stress when putting them together on site (as not every distance is the same by the mm)

This is less of a problem with classic Zinc that is rolled and formed on site (as the upstand/standing seam is connected on site = with seaming machine. Meaning the panels do not need to align 100% by the mm as the closing of the upstand happens after they are put down ) 

So this is the main difference between any click system and any traditional system (even when preformed off-site … without click system the panels are more “tolerant” towards widths discrepancies ) 

Therefore our decision to cut it at 8m lengths - and really try our best to convince people to go for a 5-6m max. Lengths . 

 

I hope that helps understanding the “why” a bit better- 

The rest- to decide what panel to go with- is partly an aesthetic one so nobody can help you to make this decision. "

[LionessHeart]

@pstunt - that's a beautiful and large home! We are also considering using Pagurek standing seam roof. Is your roof installed and are you happy with it? And did the installation of rooflights cause any issues?

[pstunt]

 

4 hours ago, LionessHeart said:

@pstunt - that's a beautiful and large home! We are also considering using Pagurek standing seam roof. Is your roof installed and are you happy with it? And did the installation of rooflights cause any issues?

 

Like many people, I am sure, we encountered many delays ( Major mistake by architect and window nightmares ) and the Pagurek roof is only nearly finished. We havent fitted the rooflights just yet as the builders and roofers wanted to complete the metal roof covering first and then cut through the metal sheets through to the roof window openings. I expect this to happen in the next few weeks and I can let you know. Overall I am impressed with the system. For what it's worth my builder is about to start building his own house nearby and he was going for standard tiled roof but since having worked with this one he has changed his mined and is going with Pagurek. We massively reduced the rooflights also from the older picture on this post, as they simply weren't needed.