Lower brick course separating along a 2 - 3 metre area of external wall.

[dssr]

I have asked about this on another forum; however, I’m desperately trying to get some indication of the issue before tomorrow.

 

Brickwork on 60s det bungalow separating along a 2 - 3 metre area of one wall (area circled red). In addition, the course below (just visible) has no cement on the brick ends and they’re aligned in a stack bond?

It’s been suggested normal movement above DPC which makes perfect sense. However, there is no DPC where the mortar is falling out, or can be found in any of the lower brickwork around the property.

 

Suggestions ?

[Brickie]

I’d say the course just visible is part of the footings brickwork & was never meant to be seen,the fact that it’s stack bond is annoying but nothing to worry about in the scheme of things. Extremely hard to tell if there’s any actual movement occurred locally in the zone highlighted or if the pointing has degraded over time with rain splash. Same with the perpend joints on the partially seen course-no way of knowing if it’s degraded or if the joints were ever full in the first place? 
Can I ask the significance of tomorrow?

[dssr]

2 minutes ago, Brickie said:

Can I ask the significance of tomorrow?

I have to decide by tomorrow evening if its worth buying.

 

The rest of the brickwork looks fine. Its just this area. The concrete path has sunk a little exposing those bricks (shown circled in photo). Indeed, I believe the concrete was bonded onto the pointing and has its sank, its ripped some of the pointwork out (laymans theory!!).

 

 On the corner, there are fine 1mm gaps opening up in the mortar joints (highlighted red on the attached photo of this post).  Not sure if this is due to movement as I'm green to all this.

 

The fact I cannot find any DPC is concerning. The property could even be early 70s, but I'd say older than mid 60s. 

 

 

 

[Marvin]

So no DPC? Well that's a problem in itself. Paying cash or needing a mortgage thereby a survey thereby the identification of no DPC?

[dssr]

4 minutes ago, Marvin said:

So no DPC? Well that's a problem in itself. Paying cash or needing a mortgage thereby a survey thereby the identification of no DPC?

 

Cash sale. 

 

I'm unable to find any DPC, that's not to say a builder wont come along and point it out to me within seconds. But try as I might, I really cannot find any. The property was part of a development across 8-10 streets comprising of mainly 3 and 4 bed bungalows all built slightly different. The pictures show up to nine courses of brickwork, none of which suggest a DPC. Unless it was in the course that has the large gaps and been pulled out. For the rest of the property it may behind 5mm of pointing? 

 

There is no obvious damp, brick outer, block inner with air bricks and no cavity filling.

 

I'm not sure if that's odd or not. 

 

[Marvin]

No internal damp and not newly decorated sounds a good thing. 

 

Could be pointed over edge of DPC. I have seen this a few times.

 

Path sunk a bit. Any of the rest of the paths the same. Anything to suggest this happens recently or just old history. Note path sunk and wall worry near downpipe....

 

Buying to live in ok. Buying to do up and sell DPC may need to be verified/installed. 

 

Good luck.

 

M

[markc]

That must have been re-Pointed  and I’m guessing they racked out some of the DPC while doing it.

certainly doesn’t look like subsidence, I would go along with @Brickie diagnosis of splash erosion of the mortar, also looks very grey so may have been too strong and that’s caused the shrinkage.

I reckon the path has sunk from being undermined by the downpipe washing away material.

Edited October 17, 2021 by markc

[dssr]

53 minutes ago, markc said:

That must have been re-Pointed  and I’m guessing they racked out some of the DPC while doing it.

certainly doesn’t look like subsidence, I would go along with @Brickie diagnosis of splash erosion of the mortar, also looks very grey so may have been too strong and that’s caused the shrinkage.

I reckon the path has sunk from being undermined by the downpipe washing away material.

 

 

Current owner has never had any repointing done since he moved in during the 80s. All the pointing matches in colour, texture etc throughout all walls. My initial thoughts were subsoil washed away due to downpipe, path sinks and takes out mortar. However, its like it further back on the same wall where the path is still in-situ. Also, the gap is around 5mm wider where the cement is missing compared to the rest of the wall. Its as if the bricks have dropped, but I'll take splash erosion any day!

 

I scrapped away some mortar on three courses above ground and no DPC was found. Not conclusive, but I'd expect something.

 

Picture attached shows the wall on the other side of the house which is fine. The bottom joint is a shadow, its not the dpc sticking out.

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by dssr

[Brickie]

Can you slide a butter knife into the gaps you’ve highlighted?

[dssr]

On the corner wall showing the red lines, you can on one, or maybe two.

 

The gap along the bottom by the path, you can on around 25% of them. However, I couldn't say how far into the brickwork the knife would go.  For example: In one area by the path where two bricks are next to each other, and all the pointing remains in situ. You could just get a knife in part way, but the next brick along you couldn't.

Edited October 17, 2021 by dssr

[epsilonGreedy]

@dssr have you examined the wall above the brick abnormality all the way to roof height particularly at any window opening? I ask because one situation I encountered with a 60's built house was a leak in a mains water pipe running through the ground floor slab.The pressure of the leak combined with a swelling of material under the slab caused some upwards and outwards expansion that was lifting the building a fraction.

 

I would not worry about the dpc you cannot find, you would struggle to find the dpc on my new build. Local brickie convention in my region is to skim a few mm over the dpc to hide it.

[dssr]

42 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

@dssr have you examined the wall above the brick abnormality all the way to roof height particularly at any window opening? I ask because one situation I encountered with a 60's built house was a leak in a mains water pipe running through the ground floor slab.The pressure of the leak combined with a swelling of material under the slab caused some upwards and outwards expansion that was lifting the building a fraction.

 

I would not worry about the dpc you cannot find, you would struggle to find the dpc on my new build. Local brickie convention in my region is to skim a few mm over the dpc to hide it.

 

Yes I have, it all looks okay, no window exists above. I've included an image showing part of the wall directly above the area in question.

[tonyshouse]

Inform your insurance company immediately 

[DragsterDriver]

Probably no soak away and the down pipe goes straight in the ground.

[Brickie]

I think you’re right to be cautious. 
Do you know anything about the ground conditions locally?

[dssr]

19 minutes ago, Brickie said:

I think you’re right to be cautious. 
Do you know anything about the ground conditions locally?

 

The local area is on shallow lime-rich soil with a chalk / limestone bedrock. Its not a subsidence hotspot, and there are no ‘known’ issues with any other properties in the street or close by.

 

I have been given until this weekend to consider my options. The property is a 90-minute drive away; however, I’ve arranged one last visit. In the limited time I have available to me, is there anything else I should I look for that doesn’t involve digging up the path?

[epsilonGreedy]

2 hours ago, dssr said:

is there anything else I should I look for that doesn’t involve digging up the path?

 

 

The building pros and surveyors I have encountered would not worry about the degree of this problem that concerns you as long as they understand the cause and are confident the motive force causing the damage has ceased.

 

At the end of the day that is not a lot of movement in 60 years. How much would 5 meters of underpinning or footing wall repair cost?

 

Or how about booking a 1 hour visit from a local surveyor for an on the spot verbal report with no written follow up, they might have spare time now the stamp duty holiday has ended.

Edited October 18, 2021 by epsilonGreedy

[markc]

At the end of the day that is not a lot of movement in 60 years.
absolutely, my daughter moved into a new house 4 years ago (luckily renting) hers and many others on the estate have gaps you can fit your fingers into. The builder says it’s just normal settling! I don’t think many of the new houses will still be standing in 60 years.

[tonyshouse]

Give it a wide berth 

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, epsilonGreedy said:

1 hour visit from a local surveyor for an on the spot verbal report with no written follow up,

This is what professionals do, and none of us here can see the context completely.

If I was that person I think it would take a good half hour on site to check it out, and soak it all in. We can't do that on this forum.

Perhaps it is a Structural Engineer you need here though, in case there is shrinkage of the ground.

 

He will look at the rest of the building too. Are there any cracks in the walls? sign of similar issues at neighbours?

[dssr]

I’ve received some real down to earth well thought out advice on this thread, and it’s been very much appreciated. If I go ahead with this sale, then no doubt I’ll be a regular ‘how do I do this’ forum member as the property requires a full modernisation program.

 

I’ll look again this week and investigate if an engineer is available to have a look around, then carefully consider what the risk will be going forward.

 

[Brickie]

If it does need underpinning then,potentially the cost of that element is reduced by the fact that you’d want to excavate there to repair/reinstate the path & to investigate the condition of the drainage. 
 

[Mr Punter]

It does not look horrendous.  Is it clay soil?  Is there any way you could dig a small pit to expose the foundation so you can see depth, integrity and bearing soil?

[dssr]

16 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

It does not look horrendous.  Is it clay soil?  Is there any way you could dig a small pit to expose the foundation so you can see depth, integrity and bearing soil?

 

 

The area is on a chalk / limestone  bedrock. To dig a pit would mean smashing the concrete. I have yet to buy the property, so that's not an option. However, if I do then I will dig a test pit regardless to inspect, repair etc.

[dssr]

@Brickie and @markc @Marvin and others who’ve helped and advised. On the results of my recent trip, it doesn’t look to be anything of concern.

 

The first pic shows the only place I can fit  a <1mm scraper in, and the only area a thick knife will fit. Anywhere else along those bricks and the mortar is firmly bonded to the top and bottom bricks, no gap whatsoever.

 

Picture 2: The vent in the picture is at the top of the wall where it meets the roof. Inside there is some form of insulation (wool-based material?) between brick inner and outer. The gable end has blockwork for the inner wall. Is that normal?

 

Picture 3: Using a borescope, on the other side of the property there are loose (not glued) beads in the cavity.

 

I cannot find holes in ‘any’ of the walls to suggest beads have been blown in? Could they have been installed when the UPVC windows were installed

 

Oh, and I found the DPC. lol