MBC timber frame and cedar cladding closing the gap

[lizzie]

Hi all

 

I hope I am in the right place for this question. If not please tell me which section I should post in.

 

We are having an MBC timber frame and we are part cladding part rendering.   Mainly the cedar cladding will on the east and west elevations, the render on north and south.  There will be a clearance gap between where the cladding ends and the ground.  We have been told we should us a metal mesh here to stop rodents (eeek!).  We were thinking of using a brick slip to face this gap and cover the mesh but MBC think it will be a bit heavy.

 

What do other use to face the gap?  I have seen pictures of houses with grey coloured 'gaps' to match the window frames and it looks nice.

 

Any ideas on possible materials and methods to deal with this gap issue.

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Liz

[Jeremy Harris]

I just dressed the DPM down over the exposed EPS insulation, then put expanded metal mesh against it for rodent protection.  The upper part of this (the bit above ground level) I covered with a 200mm wide black uPVC fascia board, the lower part is covered with crushed stone, either as a narrow strip where we have paths or the patio up to the house (three sides) or decorative stone at the front.

 

This would work with either cladding (we have larch cladding all around) or with render board.  Others have used aluminium flashing, which is available in a wider range of powder coated colours.

[Gone West]

We have an insulated raft foundation with render board and brick slips which cover the 100mm EPS upstand as shown in first picture. Stainless steel wire wool is fitted between the EPS and render board.

 

 

We used 18mm shingle to finish off next to the brick slips.

 

 

[lizzie]

Thank you very much. That is great.  You guys always have the answers for me :-))

[Jeremy Harris]

Just found a photo that shows our larch cladding with the black uPVC over the EPS, for the ~150mm or so below the DPM level:

 

[lizzie]

Wow that is perfect thank you!

[Trw144]

On 01/04/2017 at 16:58, PeterStarck said:

We have an insulated raft foundation with render board and brick slips which cover the 100mm EPS upstand as shown in first picture. Stainless steel wire wool is fitted between the EPS and render board.

 

 

We used 18mm shingle to finish off next to the brick slips.

 

 

What's your border Peter? Nice and neat - I need some to edge the lawn next to my patio

[Gone West]

11 hours ago, Trw144 said:

What's your border Peter? Nice and neat - I need some to edge the lawn next to my patio

It's 150mm deep strips of 10mm Bluclad cement board that I ripped down. The Bluclad was left over from the build and it was a bit of an experiment really. I didn't have another use for the board and it was supposed to be waterproof. Surprisingly it seems to be surviving although if the edge was walked on I think it would soon disintegrate. 

[worldwidewebs]

On 4/1/2017 at 16:39, JSHarris said:

I just dressed the DPM down over the exposed EPS insulation, then put expanded metal mesh against it for rodent protection.  The upper part of this (the bit above ground level) I covered with a 200mm wide black uPVC fascia board, the lower part is covered with crushed stone, either as a narrow strip where we have paths or the patio up to the house (three sides) or decorative stone at the front.

 

This would work with either cladding (we have larch cladding all around) or with render board.  Others have used aluminium flashing, which is available in a wider range of powder coated colours.

Hi Jeremy - Can I ask why you didn't just put the uPCV directly onto the EPS?

[Ferdinand]

On 04/04/2017 at 08:37, PeterStarck said:

It's 150mm deep strips of 10mm Bluclad cement board that I ripped down. The Bluclad was left over from the build and it was a bit of an experiment really. I didn't have another use for the board and it was supposed to be waterproof. Surprisingly it seems to be surviving although if the edge was walked on I think it would soon disintegrate. 

 

How long has that been there?

 

I might go for something like 50x150 concrete edgings if I were being functional not decorative.

 

I am a huge fan of the 1950s bullnose version, of which I seem to get oodles every time I renovate a house.

 

F

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

1 hour ago, worldwidewebs said:

Hi Jeremy - Can I ask why you didn't just put the uPCV directly onto the EPS?

 

Two reasons, really.  The first was that it's a lot easier to fix the uPVC to the extended counter battens that overlap the EPS (the uPVC is an inverted L shape, so caps off much of the end of the counter battens).  The second was that the top 50mm of the 18mm thick  uPVC is lapped under the cladding, giving the lower cladding board pretty much the same outward kick at the bottom as the rest of the boards.

[Gone West]

33 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

 

How long has that been there?

 

I might go for something like 50x150 concrete edgings if I were being functional not decorative.

 

I am a huge fan of the 1950s bullnose version, of which I seem to get oodles every time I renovate a house.

 

F

 

 

It's been there getting on for two and a half years but is looking a bit tatty now. We have replaced one section with galvanized steel and will do the other section later in the year.

[Ferdinand]

45 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

It's been there getting on for two and a half years but is looking a bit tatty now. We have replaced one section with galvanized steel and will do the other section later in the year.

 

Cheers. Useful information.

[vivienz]

@Trw144 - have a look at Everedge if you want a durable lawn edging.  We've used on several borders between lawn/beds/paths and it's really good stuff.  Not cheap, but likely to outlast us.

 

https://www.everedge.co.uk/

[Gone West]

2 hours ago, vivienz said:

@Trw144 - have a look at Everedge if you want a durable lawn edging.  We've used on several borders between lawn/beds/paths and it's really good stuff.  Not cheap, but likely to outlast us.

 

https://www.everedge.co.uk/

+1 for EverEdge. We're now using EverEdge Halestem Rigid, 150mm for the drive edging and 100mm for the pathways.

[lizzie]

Thanks for that tip on the ever edge looks just what I am looking for to edge the resin bound.

 

We have ended up getting powder coated metal ( aluminium I think but not sure)l pieces fabricated to form the skirt around our eps. They will go up under the larch clad and come down over the eps and membrane and then we will put gravel on top. They are being fabricated at the moment so not seen in situ yet.

 

[worldwidewebs]

23 hours ago, lizzie said:

We have ended up getting powder coated metal ( aluminium I think but not sure)l pieces fabricated to form the skirt around our eps. They will go up under the larch clad and come down over the eps and membrane and then we will put gravel on top. They are being fabricated at the moment so not seen in situ yet.

 

May I ask how much you're paying for the aluminium? I need to sort out something asap and was going to use uPVC, partly as it's easier to trim if needed, but we have a fait bit of Al on the house so it might be better to finish the job with it too

[Barney12]

I can't help think that powder coated aluminium is going to scratch very easily as such a low level? 

At least uPVC is a bit more forgiving visually if scratched. 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Barney12

[lizzie]

2 hours ago, worldwidewebs said:

May I ask how much you're paying for the aluminium? I need to sort out something asap and was going to use uPVC, partly as it's easier to trim if needed, but we have a fait bit of Al on the house so it might be better to finish the job with it too

I'll let you know. Still finalising the price.

[worldwidewebs]

On 8/15/2017 at 07:56, JSHarris said:

 

Two reasons, really.  The first was that it's a lot easier to fix the uPVC to the extended counter battens that overlap the EPS (the uPVC is an inverted L shape, so caps off much of the end of the counter battens).  The second was that the top 50mm of the 18mm thick  uPVC is lapped under the cladding, giving the lower cladding board pretty much the same outward kick at the bottom as the rest of the boards.

 

Jeremy, how did you fix the uPVC? Was it just to the underside of the battens that the cedar cladding is fitted to (and then the rest just held to by the stones at ground level) or did you do something else?

 

I'm going to fit the expanded mesh and then will either get that rendered (unlikely) or fit Dibond aluminium lengths and I'm not sure how best to fit the Dibond to the mesh as I'd rather not have any fixings visible

[Jeremy Harris]

7 minutes ago, worldwidewebs said:

 

Jeremy, how did you fix the uPVC? Was it just to the underside of the battens that the cedar cladding is fitted to (and then the rest just held to by the stones at ground level) or did you do something else?

 

I'm going to fit the expanded mesh and then will either get that rendered (unlikely) or fit Dibond aluminium lengths and I'm not sure how best to fit the Dibond to the mesh as I'd rather not have any fixings visible

 

 

We extended the counter battens down to the base of the internal "L" on the uPVC fascia, over the top of the folded down DPM over the EPS, and then nailed the uPVC with black plastic headed stainless ring nails.

 

You could probably bond the uPVC , neutral cure silicone and PU Adhesives like Sikabond adhere very well to it, but you would need to find a way to hold it in place for a while.  We've found that the clack headed nails aren't noticeable at all, you have to look hard to see them.

 

Worth leaving a decent expansion gap between sections, though, and only bonding on one side of the cover strips at joints, as uPVC , like aluminium, has a pretty high coefficient of thermal expansion.

[Calvinmiddle]

On 15/08/2017 at 19:44, lizzie said:

Thanks for that tip on the ever edge looks just what I am looking for to edge the resin bound.

 

We have ended up getting powder coated metal ( aluminium I think but not sure)l pieces fabricated to form the skirt around our eps. They will go up under the larch clad and come down over the eps and membrane and then we will put gravel on top. They are being fabricated at the moment so not seen in situ yet.

 

 

This is what we have done.

But we didn't just use an L shape, we added a further up stand as per the last picture.  The idea of this was to ensure that any water dripping down the wood ended up away from the frame.  As we didn't have the twin wall we had the issue that the frames didn't over hang the EPS so we would have had to have thick battens to ensure we were clear of the EPS, using the profile saved us some making it really thick.

 

Edited September 6, 2017 by Calvinmiddle
Forgot to finish the text!

[worldwidewebs]

@Calvinmiddle - That looks really good, I'm jealous!!!

 

How did you fix the Al to the EPS? I like @JSHarris idea of using the plastic headed nails, but I think that could be more tricky using Al than uPVC and I would be concerned about galvanic corrosion.

 

Every time I think I have the solution I find something else to think about!!!

[Calvinmiddle]

We didn't fix it to the EPS, the top upstand part was nailed to the battens for the cladding.  The then rested in position the the stone keeps it tight to the EPS

[Silage]

@Calvinmiddle we are at the stage of choosing  cladding profile. Can you post more of your (board on board?) design or PM me? We have considered rain screen and half lap. We are thinking that we want to create depth/tone or at least breakup the possibility of a monolithic look as it silvers as we have quite a lot of cladding (in particular on the north wall with few windows), we will have vertical and horizontal to break up but even so. Thanks.