Russell griffiths Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I really hate to be the bad bloke here. But I really think you need to get some expert help on your side, I understand the want,need to have a go yourself but what you are attempting could lead on to a multitude of fcuk up that will continue to haunt you throughout the rest of the build. How about this find a local brickie who is willing to come to site for two days and help you do the layout, hire a laser level and get all your levels transferred around the build, get the brickie to show you how to work out the bond. Cost brickie two days £350 laser £40 return on your investment fcuking priceless, cock this up now and pay for it in the rest of the build. You have said your blockwork sits sits on a row of brackets, this is not uncommon and I have done plenty of jobs where the outer skin sits on a steel ledge. so why is this steel not level ? If you don't fix this level problem you will be chasing it for ages. Sorry but get some proper advice with someone on site. Russ. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Brickie said: You're losing me here-are you proposing to build the entire job with block coursing at different heights on adjacent flanks? Yes otherwise I'll have to cut loads of thermalite or lay an entire course of bricks just to get 1 height . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 Outer block work is now pretty level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Let's think about this...laying a course now would put you back on track level wise and probably save hassle in the long run. You're likely going to have to cut at the top anyway if you don't. I wonder could you shutter and lay a concrete strip to bring up to level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 28 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: How about this find a local brickie who is willing to come to site for two days and help you do the layout, hire a laser level and get all your levels transferred around the build, get the brickie to show you how to work out the bond. Cost brickie two days £350 laser £40 return on your investment fcuking priceless, cock this up now and pay for it in the rest of the build. Got to say I'm with @Russell griffiths on this one. You need flat and straight blocks for render otherwise it will look odd - Brickies aren't too badly priced and it will pay dividends. Two days with a bit of setting out will get you probably 3-4 courses all round and you're away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 The easiest solution is to lay blocks all the way around to get a level and also dpc at correct height at the front . Or cut thermalite down the middle ( longways ) and lay a course of them all the way around . That might be easier - whipping through them with an angle grinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 If you cut a course like that for the outside then you have to match it on the inside or your wall ties won't match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 There are no wall ties single skin also ( and I appreciate you guys might not know this ) my build is non standard . 1 storey above ground 1 below . Below ground done ! im just trying to get the dpc course above ground ready for the rest of the block work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickie Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: Cost brickie two days £350 laser £40 You'll need a time machine to get someone for that rate,& I bet they're dear :)) So,Pocster,clarify the issue here for me-is it that your dpc level isn't working to block courses? Personally,I'd work on the assumption that your Dpc will be at finished floor level-if the ground level outside drops down by all means step it down to suit but I'd have one running all the way round at that height. Likewise,if the ground level rises (e.g. If you're having a level threshold at your door,where you step out level from out to in) then insert another dpc 150mm above that height,but all dpcs should lap into one another,creating a continuous barrier. Btw,what's your inner skin construction to be? Edited March 31, 2017 by Brickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, Brickie said: You'll need a time machine to get someone for that rate,& I bet they're dear :)) So my bricky & labourer is about that for 2 days... And his quality is first class..! PM me if you're East Mids area ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Brickie said: You'll need a time machine to get someone for that rate,& I bet they're dear :)) So,Pocster,clarify the issue here for me-is it that your dpc level isn't working to block courses? Personally,I'd work on the assumption that your Dpc will be at finished floor level-if the ground level outside drops down by all means step it down to suit but I'd have one running all the way round at that height. Likewise,if the ground level rises (e.g. If you're having a level threshold at your door,where you step out level from out to in) then insert another dpc 150mm above that height,but all dpcs should lap into one another,creating a continuous barrier. Btw,what's your inner skin construction to be? My course height is now all correct apart from the front. Because the front requires further concrete pours and insulation the DPC at that point needs to be higher. 1 block height though is too much. So the new plan might be to cut thermalite blocks length ways and put that all the way around all the perimeter. (half height thermalite blocks effectively) Then DPC will be fine and more importantly front DPC wall will be fine i.e. 150mm. Ground floor wall construction is (from outside to inner) ; external render, thermalite , water proof barrier, insulation , steel frame stud, OSB , plasterboard, skim Edited March 31, 2017 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickie Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 When you say more concrete & insulation is needed are you talking externally or internally? Sorry,I'm still thrown by what the issue is here-the 150mm height for dpc above g/l is a minimum-if it we're say 175mm to suit coursing then so be it. As I see it,you need to work down from ffl-take that as your Dpc height put any split courses/bricks in to suit that so your coursing is running level all the way around. I.e if you have 300mm down from ffl to what you've already built then you need one course of bricks down & you're back to block coursing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Brickie said: When you say more concrete & insulation is needed are you talking externally or internally? Sorry,I'm still thrown by what the issue is here-the 150mm height for dpc above g/l is a minimum-if it we're say 175mm to suit coursing then so be it. As I see it,you need to work down from ffl-take that as your Dpc height put any split courses/bricks in to suit that so your coursing is running level all the way around. I.e if you have 300mm down from ffl to what you've already built then you need one course of bricks down & you're back to block coursing. Sorry it is confusing ! the front floor you can see is the 'roof' to an underground section . So ontop that high compressive insulation then a reinforced concrete pour - then the final finish . Which means the front blocks as is wont have a dpc 150mm above ground . But ! As it stands the rest of the build does ! Im guessing though as you state best just do a brick or split course block all round to raise the dpc cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickie Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I take it the inner skin steelwork's going up before you start building above Dpc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Brickie said: I take it the inner skin steelwork's going up before you start building above Dpc? No . Build outer wall ; stick roof on . Then insulate inside and steel stud up . Why do the other way around ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickie Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 How are you going to tie the two skins together? The roof structure would normally sit on the inner skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 hour ago, pocster said: No . Build outer wall ; stick roof on . Then insulate inside and steel stud up . Why do the other way around ???? So are the structural brackets taking the load of the outer skin and the roof ..?? Have building control signed that design off ...?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 Unless I'm missing something - yes take a look !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 6 minutes ago, PeterW said: So are the structural brackets taking the load of the outer skin and the roof ..?? Have building control signed that design off ...?? SE approved the brackets that support the lintels down one side of the build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I hate to break it to you but the roof is sat on the inner skin, not the outer ... look how the blocks go up and through the roof joists in the design. The two rectangles with crosses at top and bottom are the sole and wall plates of the inner walls - are those supposed to be timber ..?? The roof joists sit on the wall plate and that transfers the weight through the frame to the sole plate , not the outer skin. Suggest you speak to your SE about that detail as that is how I read it. To add : read the build up. Inner leaf C16 to SE design. That's a structural timber frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, PeterW said: I hate to break it to you but the roof is sat on the inner skin, not the outer ... look how the blocks go up and through the roof joists in the design. The two rectangles with crosses at top and bottom are the sole and wall plates of the inner walls - are those supposed to be timber ..?? The roof joists sit on the wall plate and that transfers the weight through the frame to the sole plate , not the outer skin. Suggest you speak to your SE about that detail as that is how I read it. Erm ok . If that's correct then what exactly is the inner skin made of ???? i can't see a definition for the inner skin in that diagram - or am I missing something ??? inner leaf c16 stud ??? ; does that take the roof loading ??? Edited March 31, 2017 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 It's a structural C16 100mm timber frame to SE design so I would expect its 100 x 50 C16 on something like 400 centres. Double sole and wall plate from that picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 minute ago, PeterW said: It's a structural C16 100mm timber frame to SE design so I would expect its 100 x 50 C16 on something like 400 centres. Double sole and wall plate from that picture. Right ! so internal timber stud to take roof loading . Therefore no point having steel studwork also - that was just for plasterboard etc etc . sorry ! My confusion !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 It's not studwork, it's a timber frame. It has to be built as a structural element to the SE design which you need to get hold of. You can use steel dry lining profile where it's not load bearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 Ok thanks ! i guess because I don't have the SE design for this that's what confused me . appreciated ! . I'll just get my external block work up for now !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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