Vijay Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 Finally got a concealled shower valve suitable for my elderly Mum. I've never fitted one before and it has G 3/4 are these just standard BSP fittings? Are washers needed at all? I've attached a pic of the shower valve and also a quick sketch of the pipe layout I need to do. Also is a pic of the removed brickwork in the party wall. My first question is would it be a neater idea to fix a a ply/OSB panel at the back for the valve to fix to, or just fix the valve straight to the brickword (which I would throw some bonding coat on first to flatten it out). You can see that I need to have elbows/bend to the hot and cold inlet. Would I just use something like this https://www.toolstation.com/made4trade-compression-elbow-male/p33647 with PTFE and/or washers? I'm sure I read on a post where someone used solder fittings (like this https://www.toolstation.com/made4trade-compression-elbow-male/p33647 ) but I can't get my head around how that would work as you'd either need to be able to twist the pipework (or fit it with the valve off the wall?) as I don't think it would be ok to heat the fitting fitted to the valve? Or are there flexible pipes that can be used? My worry is just limiting the compression fittings behind the finished wall. Should the pipework be in 15mm right up to the valve and then just a 22 to 15mm compression reducer in the above fitting? Should any copper pipework in the stud wall (behind the waterprrof panels and tiles) be insulated to stop any condensation?? Thanks for any help Vijay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 Compression fittings, plenty of ptfe tape, pressure test before covering, insulate all pipework. And above all ensure the shower valve is set the correct distance back to allow for wall covering ant tiles etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 Sod the compression fittings ..! 3/4x15mm Hep2O with some PTFE Tape/ paste in each connection and do up tight then run 15mm Hep2O pipe up to the valves. Nothing needs to be 22mm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted August 18, 2021 Author Share Posted August 18, 2021 1 hour ago, ProDave said: And above all ensure the shower valve is set the correct distance back to allow for wall covering ant tiles etc. lol exactly what I was doing today and why I wondered about a ply board behind the valve 4 hours ago, PeterW said: Sod the compression fittings ..! 3/4x15mm Hep2O with some PTFE Tape/ paste in each connection and do up tight then run 15mm Hep2O pipe up to the valves. Nothing needs to be 22mm Do you know if they do elbows, have you come across them? I googled and couldn't see any Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 This thread may help where @PeterW gives advice on "how to". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 9 hours ago, Onoff said: This thread may help where @PeterW gives advice on "how to". Thanks mate, that really helped. What's the advantage of using HEP20 over copper for concealed pipework? Do you still get condensation/have to insulate it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, ProDave said: And above all ensure the shower valve is set the correct distance back to allow for wall covering ant tiles etc. This is really important but imho difficult because an extra mm here or there on the tile or adhesive will cause you issues . My advice is if you can access it from the rear make the fittings on a piece of ply or similar so you can move it forwards/backwards a bit ( not to strain the pipe fixings ) . If access from the rear isn’t possible ( not a euphemism ? ) make it so that you can get packers in there behind the screws if you need to move it forward . Edited August 19, 2021 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 15 minutes ago, Vijay said: Thanks mate, that really helped. What's the advantage of using HEP20 over copper for concealed pipework? Do you still get condensation/have to insulate it? Hep2o all the way . Fittings allow for rotation and require no skill . Once fitted leave exposed then pressure up and leave for a week ( at least that’s what I did ) then check every few hours for the slightest of weeps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Vijay said: Thanks mate, that really helped. What's the advantage of using HEP20 over copper for concealed pipework? Do you still get condensation/have to insulate it? As @pocster said, "requires no skill". Also a lot quicker and means you have more time to spend with SWMBO. I did mine all copper... & one soldered joint: The push on front panel with mine gives some flexibility depth wise as to how far in/out you fix the valve. It fits over the bits I'm pointing to: You can see the rubber seal inside the cover plate holes: The "horseshoe" of silicone, open at the bottom: I think @pocster had issues with his though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Onoff said: As @pocster said, "requires no skill". Also a lot quicker and means you have more time to spend with SWMBO. I did mine all copper... & one soldered joint: The push on front panel with mine gives some flexibility depth wise as to how far in/out you fix the valve. It fits over the bits I'm pointing to: You can see the rubber seal inside the cover plate holes: The "horseshoe" of silicone, open at the bottom: I think @pocster had issues with his though? Copper is dead I’m afraid . Why go to all the hassle when hep2o makes it easy . Anyway @Onoff what’s the point of all the effort to do copper which no one will ever see when you can’t tile ? ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 20 minutes ago, pocster said: Copper is dead I’m afraid . Why go to all the hassle when hep2o makes it easy . Anyway @Onoff what’s the point of all the effort to do copper which no one will ever see when you can’t tile ? ?? Tell that to a neighbour who had 3 "leaks" in plastic water pipe caused by rodents before she managed to poison them, and in all 3 cases part of the ceiling down to fix the leak then replace the ceiling. Now living in worry of when the next mouse gets in. I have yet to see a mouse chew through copper pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 Thanks for all the pics guys, genuinly helps to visualize stuff. 6 hours ago, pocster said: This is really important but imho difficult because an extra mm here or there on the tile or adhesive will cause you issues . My advice is if you can access it from the rear make the fittings on a piece of ply or similar so you can move it forwards/backwards a bit ( not to strain the pipe fixings ) . If access from the rear isn’t possible ( not a euphemism ? ) make it so that you can get packers in there behind the screws if you need to move it forward . Yeah trying to work that out today and even more difficult to do when the tiles haven't been chosen. I allowed approx 15mm for tile and adhesive but I also took on board what you said about being able to pack it out slightly if needed. I'm happy to use copper, always have. The only think that's kinda putting me off Hep20 at the moment is I would have to use a few fittings to come out of the valve at a right angle and get down to 15mm, but I do like the idea of the fittings being able to rotate..... Noticed the insulation on the walls, is it worth it on a 9" party wall that's studded out about 40 odd mm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 24 minutes ago, ProDave said: Tell that to a neighbour who had 3 "leaks" in plastic water pipe caused by rodents before she managed to poison them, and in all 3 cases part of the ceiling down to fix the leak then replace the ceiling. Now living in worry of when the next mouse gets in. I have yet to see a mouse chew through copper pipe. Well May be true . But I think that’s quite rare . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Vijay said: Yeah trying to work that out today and even more difficult to do when the tiles haven't been chosen. I allowed approx 15mm for tile and adhesive but I also took on board what you said about being able to pack it out slightly if needed. I tried to work this out also . Thought I’d had planned it correctly . But if it’s a bit tight and the shower controls are just 5mm too far back it’s an issue . Just allow for the possibility of moving the entire unit forwards or backwards . Not sure how that works with copper , but with Hep2o there’s enough give in the pipe to allow it . Thinking about it - it’s not possible with copper pipe is it ???? Edited August 19, 2021 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, pocster said: Thinking about it - it’s not possible with copper pipe is it ???? Depends on where the copper pipe is clipped to the structure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 1 minute ago, joe90 said: Depends on where the copper pipe is clipped to the structure! Fair enough. Just wasn't sure how much play you have with a copper pipe. Whilst with hep2o you can pull/push to some extent ( even if clipped nearby ) with no issue. But I'm not a copper man! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 yeah there'll be at least 5mm movement with copper and I hope to be within that lol Not opposed to using HEP20, just new and as I said, just the fact it would be a few fittings and bulk to go from the 3/4 to 15mm pipe at a right angle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Vijay said: yeah there'll be at least 5mm movement with copper and I hope to be within that lol Not opposed to using HEP20, just new and as I said, just the fact it would be a few fittings and bulk to go from the 3/4 to 15mm pipe at a right angle Get on with it then ? . Post photos . Good luck - see you on the otherside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 lol I know, I need to get this finished so I can back my build!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 2 hours ago, pocster said: you can’t tile ? ?? A constant source of embarrassment I'll freely admit. However, future archeologists will gaze in wonder at the fine detail underneath and thought that went into it all...as opposed to yours where they'll be erecting forensic tents! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 Just now, Onoff said: A constant source of embarrassment I'll freely admit. However, future archeologists will gaze in wonder at the fine detail underneath and thought that went into it all...as opposed to yours where they'll be erecting forensic tents! Necrophiliacs are the new norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 2 hours ago, pocster said: Just wasn't sure how much play you have with a copper pipe. a lot if you use Tectite Sprint fittings … but they aren’t cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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