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Are structural calcs required to produce building reg drawings?


3smees23

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Hi all,

 

I have hit an issue prior to my building reg drawings being produced.  My architectual designer is saying he needs the structural calcs in order to produce the reg drawings. However the structural designer is saying he needs the drawings to be able to do his calcs.  Neither want to pick up the phone and have a conversation.  

 

Who is in the right?  Thanks in advance!

 

Sam

 

 

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Both, neither.

Clarify what exactly each one of them needs, as definitely not all the drawings.

SE will need dimensions and concept to do the calcs, draftsman can then adjust the design to accomodate requirements (though if that designer was any good, the initial design should be sensible enough to not need any)

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51 minutes ago, 3smees23 said:

Hi all,

 

I have hit an issue prior to my building reg drawings being produced.  My architectual designer is saying he needs the structural calcs in order to produce the reg drawings. However the structural designer is saying he needs the drawings to be able to do his calcs.  Neither want to pick up the phone and have a conversation.  

 

Who is in the right?  Thanks in advance!

 

Sam

 

 

Sorry to hear that. 

 

Although they are both "technically " right it's a poor show.

 

Assuming you are a domestic Client.

 

Generally the expectation professionally, under the CDM regulations and the consumer protection act is that if you are a domestic client you are afforded some leaway compared with say a builder who is an experienced Client...  They should be communicating (that is covered under the CDM regulations) with each other, that is part of their job. Even if they have gone in too low quote wise then as a Domestic Client how are you to know what is a fair rate. It's shoddy on both their parts and they are potentially leaving themselves open to trouble.

 

If you want you can look up some of the things I mention above then.. drop them a pleasant but firm note. It's ok to say you don't understand some things.. but that you do understand that it is their job to make sure all is coordinated and safe.  If no response then you may wish to consider binning them both as when it comes to the doing the work you'll probably get no support from them if the builder goes off track.

 

If you do bin them then you'll be in a better position to ask for any monies to be refunded.

 

Hope it all works out, it may just be a hiccup lost email or something else benign.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Gus Potter
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1 hour ago, Olf said:

Both, neither.

Clarify what exactly each one of them needs, as definitely not all the drawings.

SE will need dimensions and concept to do the calcs, draftsman can then adjust the design to accomodate requirements (though if that designer was any good, the initial design should be sensible enough to not need any)

Do you not think the Architect is just being a pain 

All he needs to do is forward the Cad drawings and any relevant surveys 

(Tree) 

From them the SE Can do a foundation design floors roofs Steels lintels 

I wouldn’t make excuses for the Architect 

A simple email from the Architect is all that’s needed 

 

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Great clarification by @Gus Potter.

 

I had similar trouble with my architect & structural engineer, even though the architect introduced us to the SE. I thought things were strange when my architect phoned me up to ask if I could ask the SE some questions re the design. SE was terrible at responding to anything or communicating so sacked him (so was the architect and I dropped him later on). I brought in another SE who relied on architect's slightly more detailed planning drawings for the structural scheme. Neither communicated with each other so I picked up the phone and told them in no uncertain terms that we needed a pow wow. Banging some heads together softly over coffee and a spread of drawings on the dining table worked wonders and we were able to proceed, all in good terms.

 

I'd pick up the phone, explaining to the professionals something along the lines that as their client it would be really helpful to have a structural design and drawings that fit together to enable you to build the house and if they could facilitate this you'd be forever grateful. It may help to remind them what needs to be done ? Just saying professionals in this field rather often seem to need reminding that client service is integral to their role ?

Edited by SimonD
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Their appointments should state what they are expected to do.

Architects can be possessive about their drawings, forgetting that they are yours, once paid for.

They can also be avoiding risk by not passing on information . (I worked with an Architect once who diligently rubbed all dimensions off the drawings before passing them on.

 

The advice above is correct. 

SE needs to know the layout, dimensions and intended construction or cannot proceed.

 

Assuming your 2 professional are fundamentally decent, then just ask them what they are waiting for, and they should respond. If not, then dismiss one or both, as it is not going to get better.

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With our schemes we normally have a full set of planning drawings at 1:100 that have been produced in CAD format.  You would need to decide on the build method, then get both architect and SE to coordinate with the design.  Architect should have a decent idea of what to expect as many components for a house are standard and known to them.

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Thanks for all your advice.  Just spoke to the architect and he said he would call the SE to clarify expectations of them both.  It seems he is hesitant to start building reg drawings as he doesn't want to have to re-do them once the SE recommends specific/additional supports etc.

 

Reluctant in binning off the architect as it would cost me more money, as his quote said drawings would only be provided in PDF and CAD drawings would not be released.

 

Let's hope they can agree a way forward this afternoon.   This is a two storey extension after all, we're not building the Shard ?

 

Will let you know the outcome.

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this is pretty unusual - we always produce our reg drawings and give them to the engineer, then coordinate back in their information - on domestic projects I can make a reasonable stab at what an engineer would require (although occasionally need to change some of our details to suit) but you have to start somewhere!

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13 hours ago, 3smees23 said:

Hi all,

 

I have hit an issue prior to my building reg drawings being produced.  My architectual designer is saying he needs the structural calcs in order to produce the reg drawings. However the structural designer is saying he needs the drawings to be able to do his calcs.  Neither want to pick up the phone and have a conversation.  

 

Who is in the right?  Thanks in advance!

 

Sam

 

 

 

 

The Architect can't finish and submit the drawing pack but he can certainly send the SE a draft set. The SE can't do anything until he has at least some idea of whats being proposed.

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What is the point of CAD if you then only issue in pdf?

Just clearer drawings.

 

This sounds defensive and unhelpful to me.

 

To answer my first point myself I should clarify that a full 3D model can show up errors occurring between views.

But that is surely then something to share to client and other consultants.

I can appreciate that some architects do not want to spend £3,000 a year on the full Revit, or similar, package but Revit light is £600.

Once the drawing is done you can generate any view or cross-section at will.

 

Dave Jones, can you explain your logic of having an architect, whose job is space and dimensions, but wont issue drawings,  and then requiring an engineer to imagine what the architect has drawn and do it all again? I seem to be missing your point.

Does the engineer even know what needs his input?

 

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