Self-build in Perth & Kinross - hello

[Carrerahill]

11 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

It’s a 440. Brilliant bit of kit. 

Do you have issues with the chain oiler? I would assume the 440 isn't much different to the 435 - they are both 40.9CC but the 440 has a slightly different tune giving it a bit more power, so I think the same barebones saws. 

 

I have the 435 for light work and a 365XP for the big stuff - the 365 is fine, but the 435 seems to totally stop oiling an awful lot, to the point I have a washing up liquid bottle full of oil to manually oil the bar every now and again (pest). 

[Carrerahill]

10 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

They keep referencing this other house they are doing nearby so I went and had a look. The owner was there so he let me have a nose around. It’s a big place, bigger than mine. Bit more complicated layout. However really poor detailing in terms of insulation, thermal bridging, build ups etc. Turnkey build. He has zero involvement. Wasn’t even sure of room layout etc. I didn’t say anything obviously. Mine is about as good as I could have made it given my lack of knowledge at the start. It could have been better though. 

You should mention that to your contractor, try and convert at least one in to even opening his eyes. 

[Kelvin]

Nope. No issues with at all. It was second hand when I bought it but only had light use so was as new. I’ve had it a year and it’s seen a busy duty cycle. 

[Carrerahill]

Just now, Kelvin said:

Nope. No issues with at all. It was second hand when I bought it but only had light use so was as new. I’ve had it a year and it’s seen a busy duty cycle. 

Good, gives me hope I can flush mine out with kerosene and get it going again. 

[Kelvin]

2 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

You should mention that to your contractor, try and convert at least one in to even opening his eyes. 

He’s too he knows best and I know jack to care. They were about to start putting in the air tight barrier so I said to guy if I could pop back next week. 

[Kelvin]

1 minute ago, Carrerahill said:

Good, gives me hope I can flush mine out with kerosene and get it going again. 

Yeah it might just need a thorough cleaning. 

[Kelvin]

The other issue I’ve had is with the flat roof and the order to do it all in. I figured window in for flat roof, then flat roof membrane (Alwitra VSK) to porch and dormer, standing seam roof, cladding, guttering. Flat roofers came and laid the membrane and said they’d come back to do the trims once the rest of the work was done. NP. The owner then phones we’ll need to charge you for the revisit to finish. I asked him what other order could this have been done in so that it could be done in one visit. Oh you’ve done it the right way he says…so how come I need to pay for a revisit, why isn’t it included in the firm quote. Logic fail 🙄 As it happens HH ballsed up the edge detail so they brought the wrong trims so will be deducting the cost from them anyway. 

[saveasteading]

Fixings waste.

I wasn't guessing actually. I did lots of steel buildings. We supply and a contractor erects and clads.

A simple 1, 000m2 building has about 15,000 screws

I knew there was 5% waste allowed for screws. That's  750 screws. None were ever left in the store, but lots on the ground, lying in cherrypickers etc.

So I took to putting about 3% of the boxes into my car boot, and told them there was no spare. 

Sometimes I had to get some more from 'stores' (fortunately I had some in the car) but usually not.

 

[Thorfun]

11 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Fixings waste.

I wasn't guessing actually. I did lots of steel buildings. We supply and a contractor erects and clads.

A simple 1, 000m2 building has about 15,000 screws

I knew there was 5% waste allowed for screws. That's  750 screws. None were ever left in the store, but lots on the ground, lying in cherrypickers etc.

So I took to putting about 3% of the boxes into my car boot, and told them there was no spare. 

Sometimes I had to get some more from 'stores' (fortunately I had some in the car) but usually not.

 

do you not run the risk of the contractor 'eeking' out the screws by putting them at further and further apart centres?

[saveasteading]

Builders. I may have said before, but we had an issue with a contractor at our Highland project.

They were very persuasive to our 'first time' builders (family). I didn't take to them...lots of spiel about the proper way to do things. Things started to go wrong and they also jacked up the imaginary extras. 

I being a wizened professional got involved. Long story,  not for print. 

Anybody looking for groundworkers round there, pm me.

 

Moral, the youngsters were persuadedby the contractor, scared of being without a groundworker and resistant to us getting contractual. They wanted to pay and continue. 

A few lawyers letters involved which we even concealed from them until it all went away.

 

Subsequently they and friends (sometimes me) did the rest ourselves. Now they know they were being treated as fools and the quality was suffering. 

No other contractor has been disheartened, and some knew what was going on. If anything they were happier.

 

As above, the build process ends eventually. The quality, or lack of, remains.

[saveasteading]

2 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

do you not run the risk of the contractor 'eeking' out the screws by putting them at further and further apart centres?

Good point.

But they don't think that way, either being properly professionalì, or just using them til they run out. And there was a very precise construction manual and also easy to check.  A screw every 330mm except at laps and ends when it is 110mm etc.

They had enough spare for any misdrillings. 

Not normal perhaps but I went on the training course and got a certificate!

 

Also. Assemble bolts, washers and nut sets in advance  and keep them in a b & q orange bucket. No sodden cardboard boxes leaking washers.

[Kelvin]

Sigh! 
 

[saveasteading]

No idea, don't care?

The boss has to be dragged by the ear to see this.

I predict the response is , " it isn't finished".

 

It makes you worry about what you can't see.

[Kelvin]

They don’t care. It’s happening because they keep running out of insulation. 
 

I have been quite thorough checking everything so have caught quite a bit. I’ve also been removing any insulation that arrived wet from the supplier and all the small off cuts but there’s only so much I can do. But I didn’t see all of the vaulted ceiling nor about half of the flat roof ceiling so who knows. I will probably remove some of the OSB from the roof/wall junction in the vaulted ceiling as I reckon there will be gaps where the roll has been too short. 
 

What I don’t get is they know I check it. 
 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Kelvin

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, Kelvin said:

Sigh! 
 

Makes me so glad I put every piece of insulation in on our build. It took a really long time but at least I know there weren’t any gaps. 
 

Any financial savings were a bonus. 

[Kelvin]

Yep. I’ve done most of the upstairs and about 25% downstairs. I’m relatively confident 95% of it is ok as I was checking it. However i know there are some bits i missed. 
 

They’ve lost money on the kit erection. 85 man days spent on it. I haven’t paid anywhere near that amount. I also know they are getting grief about another job they should be on by now. 

[Thorfun]

18 minutes ago, Kelvin said:
 

They’ve lost money on the kit erection. 85 man days spent on it. I haven’t paid anywhere near that amount. I also know they are getting grief about another job they should be on by now. 

But that isn’t your fault and the quality of your build shouldn’t suffer because someone cocked up how long the build would take. 

[Kelvin]

I raised it with their boss. His initial reaction, yet again, he’s pulling the guys off-site. It’s the second or third time he’s said this. I guess this just must be par for the course in the building game. Because they know they have you over a barrel they can use the passive aggressive horse shit to get you to back off. 

[Thorfun]

11 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

I raised it with their boss. His initial reaction, yet again, he’s pulling the guys off-site. It’s the second or third time he’s said this. I guess this just must be par for the course in the building game. Because they know they have you over a barrel they can use the passive aggressive horse shit to get you to back off. 

Not a great advert for Heb Homes!!

[Kelvin]

22 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

Not a great advert for Heb Homes!!

It’s the main contractor they’ve used for years. 
 

It’s been an utter shambles since last March. I can only hope that people happen across my posts on here when searching and it puts them off going with them. 

[saveasteading]

35 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

they know they have you over a barrel

Or are they over a barrel? Are they ahead or behind on payment?

 

I won't go into contract law.

 

If they are threatening to abandon your project because their standards are so low that they cant improve, then there is an issue.

As you said earlier, you seem to display your emotions: angry then apologetic. Can someone else speak to them?

 

It is easy to say, but I have had this situation many times. It was hard after I had sacked them, and there were some delays, but I don't regret ever having sent them packing for being rubbish. If they try to sue they will find I have lots of evidence and will counter -sue. 

 

The thing is, they expect clients to buckle.....it is up to you.

 

[saveasteading]

Heb Homes, I have heard of them. It would be very bad if the nation of potential self-builders found out about this sorry tale when googling.

Is your contract with Heb Homes or the contractor?

Which one is threatening to abandon you?

 

[Gus Potter]

On 16/05/2023 at 17:21, saveasteading said:

4%.

Wow.. that is a nugget .. how do you know this kind of stuff.. ?

[Gus Potter]

3 hours ago, Kelvin said:

I raised it with their boss. His initial reaction, yet again, he’s pulling the guys off-site. It’s the second or third time he’s said this. I guess this just must be par for the course in the building game. Because they know they have you over a barrel they can use the passive aggressive horse shit to get you to back off. 

I do a bit of claims work and see this often where the domestic home owner gets the run a round.

 

Also noted that you are not over the moon about the garage, I am disappointed to see that after singing their praises.

 

Nine times out of ten when faced with this attitude I say.. yes matey.. you can argue about the quaility of work in terms of serviceability and delivery and I know that you know that the average domestic home owner / self builder does not have either the experience or access to the design codes, such as BS 8000 series and/ or knows how to construct an argument to justify why you are wrong and treating me badly.

 

My approach to this is to look for where the structural integrity of the building has been compromised. Play them at their own game and force them to get an SE involved, their safety consultants etc, you start to run their clock up. I can do a half day inspection, write an email knowing that it may take them a huge amount of hours and cost to respond.

 

Once I weave in CDM, material compliance and conformity and allude to "other concerns" I may have their pants start to fill up.

 

All you need to do at my end is know where to look from experience at where you might find a couple of structural non conformities. That is enough to get the ball rolling as you say.. hey.. I looked in two places just on the off chance and it does not conform. What else am I going to find if the Client instructs a full investigation?

 

You have I think done this under an SER.. one word to the SER Engineer will make them run a mile and now you have them under breach of contract? It's easy for me to call up the SER Engineer and have an informal chat. If the Contractor knows I have already talked to the SER Engineer then that will definitely concentrate their minds.

 

I have won many claims on structural safety, brought a lot of builders, LABC and NHBC to their senses really quickly by focusing on the safety side. The secret is that to fix the structural safety side they need to fix the serviceability side also which is the thing that seems to be the issue to you.

 

Now once you get them over a barrel and they can see they are stuffed.. then you negotiate... on your terms.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Gus Potter

[Kelvin]

The contract is with Heb. They sub the work out to their sub-contractor. They used have two main contractors but I know they parted ways with one of them. Their work is nearly done. There’s about a week’s worth of work left to do. If they walked now it wouldn’t be a big deal. My follow on joiner and I could easily do it. But it would bugger my schedule.