sean1933 Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 I apologise now for the rant. So after slogging through winter and my first builder leaving after 12 months due to him having "promised another customer to start work in March", I luckily found another, albeit less experienced/younger guy to come on board. After 6 weeks of a relatively good working relationship, he just decided to not turn up one day. How dare I question is lack of attendance, to be told he's his own boss, got other work and will do as he wants. Safe to say he's gone from the job so we're now at a standstill again, just as the weather is improving and we are coming out of lockdown so every tradesperson I talk to is too busy to even be interested. I have probably 4-6 weeks of blockwork left before the chippies were due on site so I'm now at risk of losing them too if I cant get things going again shortly. What gripes me is that I constantly hear about tradesmen going AWOL, why does it seem so much of the SE community lack a moral compass or loyalty? Our build is a 400sqm 200mm cavity/lots of glazing/vaulted ceiling house with a design that should draw some desire for people to want it on their portfolio... I just don't get the lack of interest or commitment. On the off chance any of you have recommendations for brickies in the Sussex (Hailsham/Eastbourne) area please shout up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 Is there any way you could hold a retention or pay a bonus for when the work is complete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Mr Punter said: Is there any way you could hold a retention or pay a bonus for when the work is complete? That is how the big sites work. My brickie had to divert to another job for a few weeks to finish off gables and bank the whole job completion money that was being retained. Edited April 15, 2021 by epsilonGreedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 I wonder if the younger guy missed the communal site environment working alone on a large private build? Anyhow the building industry is raw ruthless capitalism unfamiliar to many cosseted by decades of salary checks and is driven by Friday afternoon cash. If the OP is 500 blocks short of wall plate then adding 50% to the block rate will trigger interest. How heavy are these blocks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean1933 Posted April 15, 2021 Author Share Posted April 15, 2021 Maybe I have gone wrong by paying a day rate rather than block rate - I'm heavily involved and almost hand holding every few hours to ensure we're going about it right (tony tray install etc) as some methods not seen on mainstream sites. 1st guy was old school 'done it all' type who was experienced but slow and somewhat stuck in his ways - such as didn't get airtightness and thought buildings should be able to breath. 2nd guy seemed more interested but clearly had other jobs he was pricing up in the background and was more interested in them, clearly more akin to short 2-4 week jobs rather than longer term - one of his parting lines was that he didn't often do day rate work. I avoided through the wall pricing as there were a lot of other little details to deal with such as many piers/reveals, lintels, airtightness details, steels etc that just didn't seem congruent with such a method of charging. Albeit now a lot of the work is now blockwork wall runs on 1st floor, but ideally I want someone with general building interest/experience, ie not a site guy that just wants to do runs of blockwork. Tough to find it seems! This problem all started it seems when my previous architect/SE convinced me away from building with ICF and to brick/block. I never originally planned on being so reliant upon other trades! It's getting that painful I'm tempted to try and give it a go myself - I've done almost everything else on the build! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 Ask any tradesperson (politically correct garbage) and they will tell you their pet hate is having someone looking over their shoulder and checking/questioning everything they do. A good tradey will want to work on a price so they can get stuck in and make some money. Day rates are a sure fire route to boredom for good ones 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, sean1933 said: I apologise now for the rant. ... No need. Its part of the BuildHub service. Its 'good' (?) for the rest of us to know that we aren't the only ones to suffer as you do / have / are. Posts like yours reassure the rest of us that we aren't alone. So, thank you. People in our sector who are good at their job are not necessarily blessed with a bit of (or any) Emotional Intelligence. Add that to too much work chasing to few trades folk at the moment and your experience will be all too common. There's no point in blaming one side or the other. This board has ample evidence of customers and trades or other professionals talking past one another, not listening, not listening ' between the lines ' or worse. People are different, and so perspectives are different. You might like to have a quick read of this : a crass summary is understand the other persons needs first and then your own. Its not to everyone's taste but .... It helped (s) me - but I still fall off the 'good temepered even-handed wagon' occasionally - code for have a good rant. More detailed read here. Edited April 15, 2021 by ToughButterCup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean1933 Posted April 15, 2021 Author Share Posted April 15, 2021 38 minutes ago, markc said: Ask any tradesperson (politically correct garbage) and they will tell you their pet hate is having someone looking over their shoulder and checking/questioning everything they do. A good tradey will want to work on a price so they can get stuck in and make some money. Day rates are a sure fire route to boredom for good ones Totally understandable - I should have worded differently as I did my best not to look over his shoulder and question other than to make sure we were doing it correctly (which occasionally needed correcting!). We were working together like a team most of the time I thought (I have dug the foundations, laid the floor beams, steels, floor joists, etc etc) so had hoped I had gained the right to not just be considered a 'interfering client'! 5 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said: No need. Its part of the BuildHub service. Its 'good' (?) for the rest of us to know that we aren't the only ones to suffer as you do / have / are. Posts like yours reassure the rest of us that we aren't alone. So, thank you. People in our sector who are good at their job are not necessarily blessed with a bit of (or any) Emotional Intelligence. Add that to too much work chasing to few trades folk at the moment and your experience will be all too common. There's no point in blaming one side or the other. This board has ample evidence of customers and trades or other professionals talking past one another, not listening, not listening ' between the lines ' or worse. People are different, and so perspectives are different. You might like to have a quick read of this : a crass summary is understand the other persons needs first and then your own. Its not to everyone's taste but .... It helped (s) me - but I still fall off the 'good temepered even-handed wagon' occasionally - code for have a good rant. More detailed read here. Thanks for this - made me chuckle. Will have to find some time to read that properly! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 It is a sellers market at the moment. Trades may have a bit of loyalty to people they get lots of work from, but mostly they want to earn as much as they can for as little hassle. Day work is OK when they are quiet, which is not now. Nobody seems to want less than £1000 a week and some will want double. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 @sean1933 much clearer and i wasnt having a go (having re read my answer it didnt sound as i intended) working together is great, sadly as mentioned previously, a lot of the tradies like the site `crack` and banter with others and find it hard working on self builds. But there are those that take pride in their work and would love to be part of your project, just few and far between. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 Yep The boot is on the other foot now Trades are in demand The last five years have been manic I’ve enough work in till August 2023 The large sites take preference over one off jobs Find a Brickie and show him some love ❤️ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 50 minutes ago, markc said: ... a lot of the tradies like the site `crack` and banter with others and find it hard working on self builds. ... Thats a very important factor that I noticed way too late - way too late. Our site 'came alive' when a few lads ( well mostly lads, one .... ummmm) were all working together - it was fun. Come to think of it, I find it much easier to work (usually at weekends) with people who drop in to lend a hand. means I work a 7 day week, but what the Hell. Laughter punctures the tiredness doesn't it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farm boy Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Personally I now won't have a tradesperson on site unless I already know them or they know someone that I know and they know and realise that the person I know will see their work. I am not the greatest networker so I have found it difficult to find the right people. Former work coleages and friends who have done some building can be very helpful, with tea, & chocolate biscuits and conversation in good supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulberry View Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 ...and this is the reason we're planning to use ICF. Bricklayers have been a major concern of mine and the very reason why I refuse to be bound to them. The exterior walls are the most substantial part of and planned build and that I would feel so out of control of if we didn't build using Timber or ICF. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mulberry View said: ...and this is the reason we're planning to use ICF. Bricklayers have been a major concern of mine and the very reason why I refuse to be bound to them. The exterior walls are the most substantial part of and planned build and that I would feel so out of control of if we didn't build using Timber or ICF. I totally agree with you, Brickies seem a law unto themselves and its too easy to get a bad one, or more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 19 minutes ago, markc said: Brickies seem a law unto themselves and its too easy to get a bad one I sit and have a coffee with a recently retired brickie. Talk about living in the past and refusing to accept new (as in the last 50 years) building practices. Quite worrying that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger440 Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 In my experience tradesmen want to do what THEY want to do or believe should be done. Not what you want. Step away from anything mainstream and it gets hard. Im STILL, after 4 months, trying to get someone to tile the floor using specific waterproof products. (it floods). Nobody is interested. They just want to use the products they like (which are not suitable). At this rate, i'll be doing it myself! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 4 hours ago, Roger440 said: In my experience tradesmen want to do what THEY want to do or believe should be done. Not what you want. Step away from anything mainstream and it gets hard. Im STILL, after 4 months, trying to get someone to tile the floor using specific waterproof products. (it floods). Nobody is interested. They just want to use the products they like (which are not suitable). At this rate, i'll be doing it myself! We do lots of specialist tiling If you go to a company They will give you a quote and book you in for a start date It might not be as expensive as you think and you will get a guarantee At the moment some of the one man bands are charging more grant be established companies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger440 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 11 hours ago, nod said: We do lots of specialist tiling If you go to a company They will give you a quote and book you in for a start date It might not be as expensive as you think and you will get a guarantee At the moment some of the one man bands are charging more grant be established companies Any suggestions who? Im in north bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 5 hours ago, Roger440 said: Any suggestions who? Im in north bucks. Not really Your a long way out of my area 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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