Introducing our self build in Cheshire

[LnP]

Hi,

 

We’ve just exchanged contracts on a house which we plan to demolish and replace with a new build. It doesn’t have planning permission yet, but we have obtained advice from several sources and are confident we will be able to build something which suits our needs. This is our first post on BH, but we’ve read a lot of the posts with interest and are looking forward to drawing on the huge experience on here. Perhaps we’ll also be able to give something back, sharing our experiences to help others.

 

The house we’ve bought is a 2 bed, 1960s dormer bungalow, which was built on a plot which was sliced off from the garden of a large 1870s Victorian house. The plot has a frontage of about 20 m and is about 45 m deep and backs onto a canal. It includes an outbuilding which was the 2 storey coach house of the Victorian house. It’s on a private road cul-de-sac, which has 6 houses on the side ours is on and 5 houses on the other. Apart from ours and the 1870s house, the other houses on our side are late Victorian, three of which are said to be Arts and Crafts style, and one a standard Victorian style. They have all been developed in one way or another, but the road is in a conservation area and they have maintained the original character of the street view. The houses on the other side of the road are all 1970s or later and have also been developed, in some cases with modern angular big window styles. We have in mind something in keeping with the Arts and Crafts style houses on our side of the road.

 

We’ve sold our current house and will complete on both transactions on the same day and move into the bungalow. We will immediately set about renovating the coach house up to a level which will allow up to live in it temporarily, while the new build is taking place. At the same time as the coach house is being renovated, we’ll start the process of getting planning permission for the new build. We hope to get the coach house finished this year and be ready to demolish the bungalow and start the new house in spring 2022.

 

The outline spec for what we want to build is:

 

• Upstairs, 4 beds, 2 en-suites and a family bathroom
• Downstairs, kitchen with family room, dining room, living room and study
• Double garage and workshop, we haven’t decided if this will be attached to the house at the front or detached and at the bottom of the garden.
• House size, excluding garage and workshop about 220 m².
• Having lived many years in Canada, where most houses have basements, we’re going to explore that possibility.
• Regarding eco decisions, we’re happy to go beyond building regs for U values and air tightness (“fabric first”), but will be looking closely at the pay back when making decisions about heating, PV panels, heat recovery on DHW etc.

 

This is a for ever house, and while we will be looking to get value for money, we are not driven by needing to build for a profit. We are hoping to enjoy the project, but nevertheless want it over and done with as quickly as we can, so we can get on and enjoy our new house. So while we’ll be happy to help out here and there, we don’t plan any major DIY. We’ll be happy to pay trades people to do it for us.

 

At the moment, we are favouring timber frame and hiring a project manager, rather than going to a contractor for a turn key project. We considered self managed, but hope that a project manager would be faster than us and do a better job of selecting competent trades people at competitive rates.

 

It’s hard to know where to start. Our thoughts are:

 

1. We need to know what constraints we have with the plot. There are trees on and around it, so we think we need to get an arboriculturalist to give us a report setting out what tree constraints there are. We think we’ll need this anyway for the planning application.
2. Engage a planning consultant. We already spoke informally to two to get assurance before we bought the house, but we think we need a more detailed opinion about what design and layout constraints apply to have a good chance of getting planning consent - ridge height, size, position on the plot, style etc. We also think we need advice on the what our planning strategy should be.

 

After that though, we’re unsure what our next step should be. We’ll need plans, but have read on BH about the mixed experience people have had with architects. We got a quote from one as follows:

 

Stage 1; Feasibility

Feasibility study £2,400

One client meeting £145

 

Stage 2; Full scheme design and planning application

Full scheme design £5,400

Two client meetings £245

Design & access statement £400

Amendments and planning application £450

 

So that’s £9,040 plus VAT, or £10,848 and that’s with just 3 meetings. We find it hard to imagine that an architect will be able to nail a design we’ll be happy with in just 3 meetings. We’re worried we’ll spend £10k and not end up with a design we’re happy with.

 

If we go with a timber frame company like Potton, they do offer architectural design services, not only for modifications to one of their standard designs, but also starting from scratch and we’re wondering if that might be a better way to go. Initial discussions we’ve had with e.g. Potton indicate a more flexible collaboration.

 

I’ve read on here that some people do their own drawings using various apps. I’m reasonably tech savvy and have thought about doing this myself, but I’m wary about it. I’m not an architect.

 

We’re interested in advice on what’s the best way to get a design done.

[Thorfun]

welcome. sounds like you're at the same position we were in about 16 months ago! it's an exciting time and I wish you luck with your planning permission.

 

also seems like you have time to read this forum thoroughly. there's loads of great information on every possible subject so get reading! ?

 

with regards to the architect, those fees don't seem too bad but are more expensive than we paid (although our architect admits that they undercharged us!) but I highly recommend speaking to a couple more architects at least. get a feel for them and if you'd be happy working with them. I think that's as important as the cost as it might be worth paying a bit extra for someone who you think you could work with.

 

plenty of blogs on here about peoples journeys down the many different routes. so enjoy yourself here but be prepared for starting down the rabbit hole that is buildhub. once you start down it there's no coming back.

[nod]

Sounds like a great project 

We are not far away from you at Preston 

We completed our first build two years ago and have almost completed the purchase of two plots Near by at Woodplumbton 

Try to keep your fees down to a minimum We have budgeted 2k for design Similar to four years ago 

[MikeSharp01]

Don't forget that the Architect may also be needed to tackle the Building Control Drawing aspects - which will be extra. They have a standard pattern of phases so you should be able to work out with them how it all works. If you are building a traditional style house then you may find you don't need an architect but once to go a bit out of the ordinary I think it is worth it. 

 

We looked at several architects, boiling it down to a shortlist of three and then we interviewed each after first giving them the broad spec, somewhat like the one you set out above but including budget and with a mood board - several pages of things we liked in terms of aesthetics etc. This worked for us, we chose one in the end and it worked out well I think. Three meetings is not too bad, you can do a lot in those meetings provided you give them a good idea of your desires before you start. Total architects bill up to BC was around £13K (2016), ours is only 156m² so a bit smaller than yours. They often (maybe always not sure) try to link the fee to the build cost so we worked with them to engineer that as because we are doing a lot ourselves the build cost was projected to be quite low on an m² basis (about £1250).

[Buzz]

Hi @LnP i suspect you have read my post regarding our experience with architect No1 so wont repeat myself , at least your quote indicates how many attempts they are expecting to make for the money . 

Personally unless you know 90% of you design before you sit down on that first meeting i cannot see how it is possible to go from being a bit clueless as to what you want to sending to planning in 3 meetings. 

On a positive note when we engaged with architect No2 we explained what we expected from them rather than sitting listening to them tell us how wonderful they are,  don't think we needed to have done this as the experience was like night and day between the two. 

It took a total of 9 weeks from the first set of plans to sending to planning , i cannot tell you how many drawings were produced but he took a different approach i can remember the front elevation initially was sent out with 4 different styles we dismissed a couple and then he sent out 4 versions of each of the two we liked from this we pushed and pulled  it around to what we have now ,we feel that we have seen an example of just about everything possible that we liked and was in budget on the plot .this process was repeated at every stage always with an external smile and we felt the he wanted to make sure that when we signed off on the plans we were 100% happy. on one exchange with swimbo regarding en-suite ,walk in wardrobe bedroom 1 he re-drew 4 times in an afternoon i liked the first one but kept my nose out.

My advice would be , be honest with each other about what you expect to see on the final plans if you really do have no pre conceived ideas other than overall size and number of rooms and room type i don't see how 3 meetings is enough to make the number of decisions that are required to turn a dream into reality.  

 

 

[LnP]

On 17/03/2021 at 14:22, Thorfun said:

 

with regards to the architect, those fees don't seem too bad but are more expensive than we paid (although our architect admits that they undercharged us!) but I highly recommend speaking to a couple more architects at least. get a feel for them and if you'd be happy working with them. I think that's as important as the cost as it might be worth paying a bit extra for someone who you think you could work with.

 

Good to know, thanks Thorfun

[LnP]

On 17/03/2021 at 16:01, nod said:

We completed our first build two years ago and have almost completed the purchase of two plots Near by at Woodplumbton 

Try to keep your fees down to a minimum We have budgeted 2k for design Similar to four years ago 

Sounds like you've been well and truly bitten by the self build bug, Nod.

As you say, it would be nice to keep the fees down, but apart from the architect, I've got £7k in the budget for topographical land survey (incl. measured building survey and street scene), tree survey, ecology/bat survey, heritage consultant, ground investigation and landscape architect. I'm not sure I can do much about most of those.

I think you got a bargain at £2k for a design.

Edited March 19, 2021 by LnP

[LnP]

On 17/03/2021 at 16:48, MikeSharp01 said:

Don't forget that the Architect may also be needed to tackle the Building Control Drawing aspects - which will be extra. They have a standard pattern of phases so you should be able to work out with them how it all works. If you are building a traditional style house then you may find you don't need an architect but once to go a bit out of the ordinary I think it is worth it. 

 

We looked at several architects, boiling it down to a shortlist of three and then we interviewed each after first giving them the broad spec, somewhat like the one you set out above but including budget and with a mood board - several pages of things we liked in terms of aesthetics etc. This worked for us, we chose one in the end and it worked out well I think. Three meetings is not too bad, you can do a lot in those meetings provided you give them a good idea of your desires before you start. Total architects bill up to BC was around £13K (2016), ours is only 156m² so a bit smaller than yours. They often (maybe always not sure) try to link the fee to the build cost so we worked with them to engineer that as because we are doing a lot ourselves the build cost was projected to be quite low on an m² basis (about £1250).

Yes, Stage 3, construction drawings, building regs and tender, is another £12k, which would bring it to a total of £23k. And we get just one meeting included in that stage, additional meetings are extra at £210 each. We clearly need to do some shopping around!

The mood board sounds like a good idea. 

[Thorfun]

31 minutes ago, LnP said:

I've got £7k in the budget for topographical land survey (incl. measured building survey and street scene), tree survey, ecology/bat survey, heritage consultant, ground investigation and landscape architect

I think that's a tight budget for all of that! bat surveys alone will be a couple of grand at least as they need multiple ecologists at dawn and dusk on more than one day. and then the ongoing remediation plans/bat license etc if they're found can soon add up. then the topo, GI, arbo etc makes it sound a bit tight.

 

17 minutes ago, LnP said:

would bring it to a total of £23k

yikes!

[Thorfun]

just remembered that you're in Cheshire. sorry, didn't mean to put you off, I'm just used to prices in the South East companies just add an extra 0 to the end of costs.

[Johnnyt]

We're just north of Northwich and found a local and innovative architect who came in under 3k.

Our build is shell up and roof on. Feel free to contact if you want gander or a chat

JT

 

[Happy Valley]

Welcome LnP - we are in East Cheshire.

 

We have planning and are about to start our new build house in the garden to the side. Total is about 200 sq m including the integral garage. The design was driven by us.

 

So far we have been lucky with our architect costs and he does not charge for meetings but will have them as and when necessary. We are just over £5000 to date with planning and construction drawings.

 

Costs to date are around £17500 ex VAT all in for:

 

Topographical survey

Architect up to construction drawings

Planning Consultant (including post planning discharging of conditions and application to remove conditions)

Structural Engineer

Ecology Survey

Environmental survey

Soil survey

Drainage plan

Landscape plan

Application fees and disbursements to planning authorities and utility companies

 

We have budgeted for £25000 in professional fees but currently looking currently like it will come in under. By most accounts this is very good value.

 

Good luck with your project.

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Happy Valley