Hello

[Mrs H]

Hello BuildHub forum.  I'm a Chartered Architect specialising in the domestic market. I'm not here to sell my services, nor to dispense advice. I know a lot about the procedures involved in commissioning a house and hopefully can say things such as "We did it like this..." without incurring liability.

 

What I hope to gain from this forum is an insight into problems encountered from the client point of view. I've already learned a few things.

 

I'm getting more Self Build projects recently and am interested in streamlining my support services to those who don't need a full architect's service. Often I find that people don't know what they don't know. Me included.

[ProDave]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

 

You are not the only architect on here, so you will have some backup.

 

I think mention the word architect here and it's a bit like marmite. So keep your tin hat ready.

 

Personally I had very bad experiences of an architect. I could only find one that charged a fixed fee being a percentage of the estimated build cost. Telling them that I didn't want it project managed and put out to tender did not make them budge on their fees. And as it happened the actual build cost ended up a little over half their estimated build cost.

 

To say I felt like I was being taken for a ride and was just a "rich self builder / cash cow" was an under statement.

 

I ended up using an architectural technician who charged a much more reasonable fee related to the amount of work he did, not some ficticious build cost estimate.

 

I would hope I was just unlucky and you will tell me your fees and scope of work are both reasonable and negotiable.
 

[Mrs H]

Sorry - you were Unlucky. We give a fixed cost quotation and stop at the tender stage. No amount of cash/percentages would inspire me to undertake project management. Since the Principal Designer role appeared we have ongoing responsibilities into the contract stage though. Also I don't give build cost estimates - that's a QS job. I can give a £/square metre estimate based on whether it's new build or conversion and what the ground conditions are.

 

Are you sure you had a real architect?  A a third of those advertising as architects in my area are not registered with the ARB and therefore not architects. (There's no such thing as an unregistered architect - http://www.architects-register.org.uk/ )

[Guest Alphonsox]

Hi and welcome to the forum

[ToughButterCup]

And I have an excellent architect. Registered, tame, polite, gifted, sensibly priced. 

 

5 hours ago, Mrs H said:

[...]

I'm getting more Self Build projects recently and am interested in streamlining my support services to those who don't need a full architect's service. Often I find that people don't know what they don't know. Me included.

 

Can I suggest you 'waste' time on BH? Ignore the brickbats about your discipline. They are slightly relevant - but no customer is going fully to report their own shortcomings are they? So tales of difficulties with architects are unlikely to be  objectively reported.

The board contains ample primary evidence for your research. Few come here and tell us what they got right; most are asking for help. Very few posts go unanswered.

 

So how can you tailor your service to people like us?

 

Listen. Read your customer. Connect. Build trust. Explain simply. Signpost self-support. Offer further engagement as required.

Principally, connect.

 

[Ferdinand]

I read that as Chartered Accountant .

 

Welcome.

 

It is useful to have a rough location .. say county or region.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Mrs H]

28 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

I read that as Chartered Accountant .

 

If only. 

 

Location = West Midlands

[IanR]

Welcome!

 

15 hours ago, Mrs H said:

I'm getting more Self Build projects recently and am interested in streamlining my support services to those who don't need a full architect's service.

 

You're going to need the "Swiss Army Knife" of options for Services then, I can't imagine there are two self-builders that are the same.

 

I'd say the common ground on BuildHub, and eBuild before, is cost effective, low energy homes. I'm sure your professional experience will be warmly welcomed on the site and if you have interest and knowledge in low energy buildings there will be lots of opportunity to contribute.

Edited February 15, 2017 by IanR

[Fallingditch]

13 hours ago, Mrs H said:

 A a third of those advertising as architects in my area are not registered with the ARB and therefore not architects. (There's no such thing as an unregistered architect - http://www.architects-register.org.uk/ )

Welcome!

 

My Architect in the East of England (or should I say the person who designed and drew up the plans for my custom build, and took them through Planning) used to refer to himself as an Architect, but now I notice that he calls himself "Member of the Chartered Association of Building Engineers". He did a good job. Clearly the qualifications are important, but as I am sure you know Mrs H., both references and the relationship area really important.

[Mrs H]

Hello & thanks everyone for your welcomes. 

 

Fallingditch - this is what I mean. Your designer may not have had professional indemnity insurance to carry out architectural design. I don't know if indemnity for structural engineers covers this. My indemnity doesn't cover structural engineering. 

 

Yes, "both references and the relationship area really important" - but more so are qualifications and insurance. Without qualifications how could any designer get professional indemnity (PI) insurance? 

Architects are the most educated designers in the construction industry and yet we are required to carry PI insurance. Technicians/Technologists who are members of CIAT also have PI. http://www.ciat.org.uk/

 

[PeterW]

32 minutes ago, Mrs H said:

Your designer may not have had professional indemnity insurance to carry out architectural design

 

Can you explain that one a bit more ....?? I've held PI to protect me for a number of years but in different industries - mostly cover around not bringing major banks to their knees - but I can't see why  an architect would need PI if they are not taking on the PD role or are doing the structural design ..? 

 

If they are doing structural design elements then they need to have PI as an SE anyway - given its possible for an architect to design  something that's impossible to build, is the PI insurance there merely in case you get sued by a client who doesn't like your design ..??

 

 

[Mrs H]

Architects are required by law to have Professional Indemnity insurance and can be prosecuted in the magistrate court for failing to have any/adequate PI. So it's not an optional extra. PI covers mistakes in the design in terms of detail failure, specification of the wrong materials, wrong dimensions, failure in procedure, leading to financial loss for their client. Here is the government's statement about Architect PI - http://www.arb.org.uk/professional-indemnity-insurance

 

 

[PeterW]

Not wanting to pick holes but that is a standards and guidance statement, not a legal requirement ....

 

I get the point you're making about carrying PI but from my experience the SE is the one that has specified materials etc and calcs not the architect ..? I would expect if you (the architect) expected to carry out project management or warranty work by way of an architects certificate then there is a real need to hold specific and substantial PI. The minimum specified there is £250k, I would hazard a guess that 90% of the self builds on here exceed that by a fair margin. 

 

I think this is where the major issue starts with architects and self builders or clients who are more informed of what they want and how they want it done - we (they) are expecting to buy a service that has defined roles and responsibilities with defined costs and deliverables. Where an architect spans across multiple areas (such as project management, warranty, tender management etc) then there needs to be a better mechanism to understand the costs and who is doing what and more importantly what is not included in pricing and specification of services. 

 

I've had dealings with 3 architects/ATs in the last 5 years - one major commercial, two residential builds.  The commercial one was simple to deal with, told me up front what I was getting for my £37k, and he did what was required. The first residential one was average at best, "quoting" £1450 for a plans submission and sending a bill for £2000 expecting it to be paid; the AT on the other hand took a  sketch from a client and turning it into a set of plans for the price agreed, and then offered to pass it to the SE to get it confirmed which would be added on and I got a final bill broken out into the plans, the SE and then additional charges of around £70 I think for SE clarifications. 

 

All three of the architects I've listed are on the ARB/AT lists. The biggest issue is that there is no "Trust an Architect" site unlike the one for building trades so picking one is a bit of a lottery - any advice on how to do that would be welcome ...!

 

 

 

 

[Mrs H]

18 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Not wanting to pick holes but that is a standards and guidance statement, not a legal requirement ....

 

 

No - this is a legal requirement. The ARB is a government body empowered to enforce The Architect's Act 1997 through Statutory Instruments. https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/architects-registration-board

 

From the earlier link I provided - 

"

Standard 8 of the Architects Code - Standards of Conduct and Practice provides that:

You are expected to have adequate and appropriate insurance cover for you, your practice and your employees.  You should ensure that your insurance is adequate to meet a claim, whenever it is made.  You are expected to maintain a minimum level of cover, including run-off cover, in accordance with the Board's guidance.

 

 

[SteamyTea]

Hello and welcome Mrs. H

 

Does the use of the word 'expected' mean compulsory? ( Compulsory Insurance Act 1969 )

I was under the impression that there were only two rules about compulsory insurance, one is for motor vehicles on the public highway and the other is public liability i.e. for offices, shops, factories etc.

Was over 35 years ago I was told this and things change, so I may be way out.

Edited February 15, 2017 by SteamyTea

[Mrs H]

27 minutes ago, PeterW said:

The biggest issue is that there is no "Trust an Architect" site unlike the one for building trades so picking one is a bit of a lottery - any advice on how to do that would be welcome ...!

 

The ARB has a Find an Architect button on its home page. http://www.arb.org.uk/  All architects in the UK are listed there. (If someone is not listed then they're not an architect)

 

The RIBA has a Find an Architect search tool - https://www.architecture.com/FindAnArchitect/FAAHome.aspx  (find me there under sustainable design)

 

CIAT has a Find a Practice search page - http://www.ciat.org.uk/en/members/ - (link provided to be fair to ATs)

 

Given the thousands of qualified and insured people available to design buildings I'm mystified as to why anyone used unqualified/uninsured "Architectural Services". Would people take such an approach with their teeth? 

[Mrs H]

1 minute ago, SteamyTea said:

Hello and welcome Mrs. H

 

Does the use of the word 'expected' mean compulsory?

I was under the impression that there were only two rules about compulsory insurance, one is for motor vehicles on the public highway and the other is public liability i.e. for offices, shops, factories etc.

Was over 35 years ago I was told this and things change, so I may be way out.

 

Yes. It is compulsory for architects to have professional indemnity insurance. 

 

(PI is not required for pretend architects)

[Mrs H]

The ARB's FAQs on PI might be enlightening - http://www.arb.org.uk/pii–frequently-asked-questions

 

They brought in compulsory PI about 20(?) years ago when I was registered but not working as I had small children. This would have been a financial blow but then the RIBA responded with a slimline policy RIBASur50 which cost £50 and provided £50K worth of cover - this was most welcome for architects who were part-time/semi-retired. Then a few years later the ARB imposed the £250K minimum which sent premiums up into the hundreds. 

 

It's worth noting that the £250K is for construction costs - this does not include the land cost. Nor generally the kitchen if it is installed outside of the building contract (there was one for £60K in a Self build I did a few years ago - so a significant amount).

[PeterW]

18 minutes ago, Mrs H said:

 

No - this is a legal requirement. The ARB is a government body empowered to enforce The Architect's Act 1997 through Statutory Instruments. https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/architects-registration-board

 

From the earlier link I provided - 

"

Standard 8 of the Architects Code - Standards of Conduct and Practice provides that:

You are expected to have adequate and appropriate insurance cover for you, your practice and your employees.  You should ensure that your insurance is adequate to meet a claim, whenever it is made.  You are expected to maintain a minimum level of cover, including run-off cover, in accordance with the Board's guidance.

 

 

 

OK...

 

The Architects Code is not enshrined in the Architects Act, its a requirement of the regulating body - there are two things that are a give away on that too. The first is that under standard 8 you are "expected" to have PI. If this was in law, it would be "required". The Architects Act indicates the following :

 

Section 13 of the Architects Act 1997 (“the Act”) requires the Architects Registration Board (“the Board” ) to issue a Code laying down the standards of professional conduct and practice expected of persons registered as architects under the Act. Any failure to comply with the provisions of the Code is not of itself to be taken as constituting unacceptable professional conduct or serious professional incompetence, but it shall be taken into account in any disciplinary proceedings before the Board’s Professional Conduct Committee.

 

So basically if you don't do it, you will get your legs slapped or worse by the PCC.

 

Secondly, this disclaimer at the bottom of the linked page

 

DISCLAIMER: The contained information is for general guidance only and should not be relied upon in place of professional advice.  ARB does not accept any duty to advise on the appropriate terms of cover required in specific cases.

 

Whilst I get what you're saying on a lot of this - and those links to the different find an architect page - they are run by the people you pay your membership fees to and are not recommendation sites and have no rating or feedback system within....

 

 

[Mrs H]

5 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

So basically if you don't do it, you will get your legs slapped or worse by the PCC.

 

 

And fined up to £5000. And removed from the Register. Thus no longer being an architect. Therefore insurance is compulsory.

http://www.arb.org.uk/regulating-use-of-the-title-architect-professional-standards

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

[...]

but I can't see why  an architect would need PI if they are not taking on the PD role or are doing the structural design ..? 

[...]

 

Credibility as a professional.

The term Professional  has a few interpretations, but the reassurance given by PI is a major factor in people's understanding of professional status. You can be a poor architect, and still have PI.

 

At a slight tangent, @Mrs H, let's say an architect is removed from the register: would the now was-an-architect's  PI be invalid?

[PeterW]

51 minutes ago, Mrs H said:

 

And fined up to £5000. And removed from the Register. Thus no longer being an architect. Therefore insurance is compulsory.

http://www.arb.org.uk/regulating-use-of-the-title-architect-professional-standards

 

No, its not...! Its compulsory under your registration terms, not in law ! As I've said before, a lot of us on here - especially those who have been in IT or consulting - hold or have held PI insurance. Looking at my last renewal in 2012 it was £977 - that was for £5m PI which I was required to hold otherwise I could not step foot into the client that I was working for.

 

Whilst I understand the penalties and the practice guidance in the code is very clear that they "may" investigate, and "may" undertake disciplinary proceedings. May is not a legal term, and this is the issue a lot of us have found with architects and the services provided. What's needed is some way of finding decent architects who offer a service that is priced appropriately and can be independently rated and fed back on.

 

Let's say I use ABC&Co (Architects) and I'm not happy with their work but it doesn't breach any particular part of the guidelines so I have no recourse to the ARB or RIBA - how is anyone else to know..?? Other than word of mouth, it's not something you use on a daily basis but has a significant impact on the cost and quality of one of the biggest purchases you will probably ever make, what is the best way to find a decent architect...??
 

20 hours ago, Mrs H said:

I'm getting more Self Build projects recently and am interested in streamlining my support services to those who don't need a full architect's service.

 

As you said in your original post, you want to streamline your services to the self build market - this is something the market is crying out for, yet bizarrely there seems to be no way for you to "advertise" that through your own registration bodies..!! If you can crack that, I think you're sitting on a gold mine !!

[Ferdinand]

Welcome.

 

This is all interesting in a nerdy type of way. The only thing regulated is the title "Architect", and ARB (Architects Registration Board) * occasionally gets into a flounce about the wrong people using the title. Since I am not in the Profession I can afford to be both a) mused and b) mused.

 

eg Renzo Piano and Daniel Liebeskind (https://www.dezeen.com/2012/10/09/watchdog-apologies-for-saying-renzo-piano-not-entitled-to-be-called-an-architect/) or John Pawson (https://www.dezeen.com/2013/08/01/arb-threatens-dezeen-for-calling-john-pawson-an-architec/). Pawson has the Architecture degree but did not complete the professional experience requires.

 

I appreciate that the law makes it very tricky in only regulating "Architect" and not "architectural" etc, and EU mutual recognition requires EU-qualified architects to be recognised, but ARB only recognises them when they are actually written into the UK register (probably hence the above), and some of the consequences are a little peculiar. I feel sympathy for ARB on this score:

 

Quote

Loukes admitted that, since Pawson's studio does employ at least one registered architect, we could use the phrase "architects John Pawson" to describe Pawson's company, but not "architect John Pawson" to describe Pawson as an individual.

 

In the piece linked above, ARB actually suggest that Pawson be referred to as "Architectural Consultant".

 

I can do that, and could call myself "Architectural Consultant". I may even be able to market my business as an "Architectural Practice" (haven't checked that all the way, though).

 

Personally I think that architect should be allowed to be a generic, and "Chartered Architect" be the term that is legally protected - to be more like other Chartered professions.

 

But this has been an issue since forever. I know architects of 40 years standing who are not allowed to use the word even though they still do jobs occasionally since they are not registered with ARB. My own father had a spat with ARIBA about this in the 1970s.

 

Lord help us if the Chartered Institute of Builders tried to create a parallel practice .

 

Ferdinand 

 

* Nice paraphrased quote from Arthur C Clarke in A Fall of Moondust. "Boards are hard and unyielding. They are made of wood".

[Mrs H]

17 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

At a slight tangent, @Mrs H, let's say an architect is removed from the register: would the now was-an-architect's  PI be invalid?

 

Yes. It's in the small print on my policy.

[Mrs H]

20 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

No, its not...! Its compulsory under your registration terms, not in law !

 

This is "Public Law" - also known as "Administrative Law". This is the body of law which includes the exercise of powers and duties by public bodies. Their authority is derived from Statute Law. The Building Regulations are another example of Public/Admin Law.