WWilts Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 A few builders interested, each suggesting a different approach to the contract. A. Main contractor fixed price B. Main contractor till water-tight shell, with airtightness preliminary test. Then individual trades for the rest, or main contractor hired for the rest C. Labour only guaranteed maximum price including profit till water-tight shell with preliminary airtightness tested, materials purchased by us using trade account set up by builder in our name (hopefully with their discounts applying to us). Others contracted to supply and fit the rest D. Main contractor agreeing to use Estimators Online quantities & prices, 10% profit, 5% overheads, 5% builder contingencies E. Main contractor with target cost, guaranteed minimum profit for them, plus incentive payable if target cost met, plus half share in any cost savings All seem reasonably reputable. Option D does not have regular staff or regular subbies. Others do. Context: No time or skills for DIY. Which of the approaches would you choose, and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 17 minutes ago, WWilts said: use Estimators Online quantities & prices, 10% profit, 5% overheads, 5% builder contingencies Which figures are you using from Estimators Online? as there is already profit and contingencies build into the 'client' quote, make sure you aren't double counting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWilts Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 27 minutes ago, Moonshine said: there is already profit and contingencies build into the 'client' quote, make sure you aren't double counting. Yes, no double counting. The spreadsheet allows profit/overheads/contingencies to be set to zero if desired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Whats more important to you ? Someone to manage the risk or cost . Would option D be on site every day during the build Managing the sub contractors or would he just slice the job up and book the trades meet on day one and give me a call when your done and I'll come.and check your work. Whats the difference in price between A and D .%. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 All will use subcontractors Up to roof and individual trades will work out cheaper than main contractor But you will need to know what you are looking at As individual trades won’t follow drawings unless they have to 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWilts Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 47 minutes ago, Buzz said: Would option D be on site every day during the build Managing the sub contractors or would he just slice the job up and book the trades meet on day one and give me a call when your done and I'll come.and check your work. Whats the difference in price between A and D .%. Yes, D likely to be hands-on. Might even take on the site foreman role. Price from A awaited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWilts Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 35 minutes ago, nod said: Up to roof and individual trades will work out cheaper than main contractor But you will need to know what you are looking at As individual trades won’t follow drawings unless they have to That's my hunch. Airtightness 4.0 preliminary test at watertight stage is main safeguard. If they get that, SAP pass assured. Architect will supervise & give CML certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 26 minutes ago, WWilts said: That's my hunch. Airtightness 4.0 preliminary test at watertight stage is main safeguard. If they get that, SAP pass assured. Architect will supervise & give CML certificate. You should be aiming much lower than a 4. It's not that hard to get that which means very little effort on their behalf. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 18 minutes ago, WWilts said: Yes, D likely to be hands-on. Might even take on the site foreman role. So a hands on contracts manager for 10% of the build cost ? assuming the on line estimator is not under or over by a large % on each step and if you haven't the time to self manage or the skills to diy large parts of the build this could be a sensible option . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 21 minutes ago, Declan52 said: You should be aiming much lower than a 4. It's not that hard to get that which means very little effort on their behalf. I agree we were 2.2 Block and block Though I’ve little faith in air testers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWilts Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 24 minutes ago, Declan52 said: You should be aiming much lower than a 4. It's not that hard to get Yes, and if we aim for 4.0 we're bound to get 6.0. So aiming lower is a good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWilts Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 21 minutes ago, Buzz said: So a hands on contracts manager for 10% of the build cost ? Neat way of looking at it. Had not occurred to me. Main contractor/builder who project manages trades, supervises & maintains standards, & is happy to accept an independent estimate of quantities. They normally buy plots & build to sell off plan. Probably going through a lull at the moment, so available for this. I offered them a share in cost savings too. Already they proposed some ways of saving costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWilts Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, nod said: we were 2.2 Block and block Though I’ve little faith in air testers Getting the plasterboard junctions well taped seems to be the critical point, as well as sealing windows/doors. Will aim for as low as possible, then might well achieve better than 4.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 9 minutes ago, WWilts said: Yes, and if we aim for 4.0 we're bound to get 6.0. So aiming lower is a good idea It's more a case of they get a 5 and go sure that's not really much of a difference and convince you 5 is the result of hours of meticulous work. If you push for a 2 or 3 then your looking it done right and at the end of you score a 5 then that's a mile out. What type of build are you going for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 C causes you big VAT bills and cash flow issues. Avoid if possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWilts Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Declan52 said: they get a 5 and go sure that's not really much of a difference and convince you 5 is the result of hours of meticulous work We'll fail SAP with 5.0, so they won't convince us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWilts Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 minute ago, PeterW said: C causes you big VAT bills and cash flow issues. Avoid if possible. How so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, WWilts said: How so? You will pay all the VAT on materials at 20% and only able to do one claim at the end. Builder can claim monthly and zero rate the supply to you. Most lenders will loan on stage basis and assume no VAT so you need to find 20% extra each time yourself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_L Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 25 minutes ago, WWilts said: We'll fail SAP with 5.0, so they won't convince us If you go below 3.0 you will need a formal ventilation strategy. Page 19 here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/468871/ADF_LOCKED.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 48 minutes ago, WWilts said: Getting the plasterboard junctions well taped seems to be the critical point, as well as sealing windows/doors. Will aim for as low as possible, then might well achieve better than 4.0 It is and around and under windows and doors Get that right and you have no need to worry about airtightness I took this photo when I started plastering ours My trusted helper also Mixed every bag of plaster and 250 bags of render I’ve got her a battery mixer for our next build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 minute ago, nod said: I’ve got her a battery mixer for our next build You old romantic ..!! ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 16 minutes ago, nod said: Those dabs around sockets, beautiful 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, Moonshine said: Those dabs around sockets, beautiful Yeah it’s not rocket science But everything must be sealed Good practice to run a line of acoustic sealant around all ceiling angles also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWilts Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 hour ago, A_L said: If you go below 3.0 you will need a formal ventilation strategy. Thanks for the heads up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWilts Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 hour ago, nod said: our next build A way of life, it seems, once hooked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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