Miller3857 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 I have recently fitted Salus auto balancing actuators to our underfloor system and am having no end of problems with some of the actuators remaining open even though there is no call for heat from the relevant zone thermostat. I have spoken with Wunda who have advised me to go through the recalibration process three times in succession which I have done numerous times and although this does reset them, after anything from a few hours to a day some of them decide to remain open, it’s not always the same ones and there would appear to be no rhyme or reason as to which one it is. It is only when another zone calls for heat that you can see which actuator has stuck open with the flow meter indicating the actuator is open. On one of the zones there are three actuators and it can be just one that remains open with the other two operating properly. The chap from Wunda did say he couldn’t explain why it happened and that sometimes it could be a reoccurring issue or that resetting would solve it - not particularly helpful. Has anyone else had similar issues? Many thanks, Frustrated from Berkshire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 what wiring centre do you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller3857 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 Heatmiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) I went to check how these work and Google found this.. https://www.wundatrade.co.uk/shop/home/quick-shop/wundatherm-quick-shop/controls-quickshop/actuator-auto-balancing/ Quote Please note Heatmiser thermostats are Not compatible with our Auto balancing actuators. I have no idea why they say that because as far as I can tell there is nothing special or different about Heatmiser stats (which I have). Especially as the stats don't even connect directly to the actuators, they go via the wiring centre. Edited February 1, 2021 by Temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 I was going to suggest double checking that the temperature sensors for the Salus are on the right return pipes. Normally the flow and return pipes are one above the other on the manifold but I suppose if they weren't the UFH would still work with regular actuators. Best way to check is probably to turn one loop on at a time and check the right pair of pipes gets hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller3857 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 Checking back on previous Salus threads back in Jan 2020 it was discussed at length although there doesn’t seem to be a definitive answer it’s clear I’m not alone with this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Gosh I'd forgotten about that thread.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 I remember now why the Heatmiser stats may cause a problem. The ones I have can switch on for short periods possibly putting that actuator into recalibration mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller3857 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 We are using Honeywell stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Do they have a timer that would prevent accidental triggering of the calibrate mode? Sometimes its called an anti cycling timer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller3857 Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 No they don’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john0wingnut Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 With regards to the Heatmiser stats, you just need to make sure the output delay is set too something like 2 mins, as the Salus Calibration power cycle is 60 seconds, from memory. 47 minutes ago, Miller3857 said: No they don’t. Found this - https://www.honeywellhome.com/us/en/support/my-thermostat-display-shows-wait-or-waiting-for-equipment-or-has-a-flashing-cool-on-in-display/ So looks like Honeywell do incorporate something that can be used, but maybe just called something different in the setting menu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Do you have a webcam or similar? I suggest setting it up to see if you can record the actuator LEDs rapidly flashing to indicate its doing an unexpected calibration cycle. Also.. The installation instructions caution against doing a calibration cycle when the flow temperature is falling so... Do you have a time clock that switches off the boiler but still leaves the stats able to control the actuator? If the stats were to accidentally trigger a calibration cycle while the boiler is off perhaps that causes problems? The strange thing is this bit in the OP... 13 hours ago, Miller3857 said: some of the actuators remaining open even though there is no call for heat from the relevant zone thermostat. I've not been able to find a wiring diagram for the actuators. Do you know how many wires they have? Do they have a "permanent live" ? Most standard actuators just have two (power and ground). This means they must close automatically as there is no power source to power a motor if the stat isn't calling for heat. So on those what you describe would point to a mechanical rather than electrical problem. However there are two alternatives to some form of automatic closure.. Either they have a permanent live or an internal battery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly100 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 I can confirm these work on Heatmiser equipment as I have them at Chateaux Fly. Out of the 12 I had, I had a rough one that did alsorts of daft things. Not closing, not opening etc. Sent it back for a replacment problem solved. I can also confirm mine are normally closed even after the power goes off and the call for heat ceases goes off. Fly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Ok here.. https://salus-controls.com/files/THB230-Quick-Guide-V008.pdf it says they just have two wires. For 230VAC Auto Balancing Actuators connect the brown wire to the switched live output, connect the blue wire to the neutral supply. For 24V Auto Balancing Actuators connect the brown/blue wires to a switched 24V output (AC or DC), wires are polarity independent. That means the actuator must have some built in means of self closing when the stat stops calling for heat. It could be a battery to run the motor or a mechanical spring or a wax cartridge or whatever. So if you are certain about this.. 18 hours ago, Miller3857 said: some of the actuators remaining open even though there is no call for heat from the relevant zone thermostat. It means there must be a fault with that mechanism or with the way it interacts with the valve. Valve too stiff? Battery becoming discharged due to short cycling by the stat? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFDIY Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 The blurb refers to a super capacitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Were these actuators done up hand tight, or with a grips? I recently fitted 9 and found they worked much better a little over hand tight, almost 'loose'. Just using the body of the actuator to turn a bit of extra tightness with the nut was enough to stop the actuator in its tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller3857 Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 Thanks for this Nick, they are hand tight and I did use the body for a bit of extra tightness , I will loosen them off slightly and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller3857 Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 Well, I’ve tied what Nick has suggested by making sure they are not over tight and then ‘reset’ the actuators and, initially they work ok, however, after a period of time (24 hours) some decide to go back to remaining open despite no call for heat. To be honest I’ve given up and asked Wunda to refund my money unless they can provide a definitive answer on why this continues to happen and revert back to ‘normal actuators. It will be interesting to see what they say!’ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Would be interesting to measure/monitor the voltage on the super cap in normal operation and see what happens when it gets stuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller3857 Posted February 5, 2021 Author Share Posted February 5, 2021 There is no voltage when it gets stuck, there is no power what’s so ever feeding the actuator at that time, they just default to being open for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 I know it shouldn't matter, but have you tried reversing the pipe sensors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 I’ve just installed 5 of these with no issues . As only some seem to be causing an issue I’d change them to a different flow and return . If they still play up swap the wiring in the control box . Then it’s either faulty actuator ( unlikely to be 3 though ) , faulty wiring box . After that you could just ‘waste’ 50 quid on a different wiring box - just too see what happens ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFDIY Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 6 hours ago, pocster said: . After that you could just ‘waste’ 50 quid on a different wiring box - just too see what happens ... They're 250v so just put a plug on them and power from an extension lead, simulate them coming on and off a few times through the day as required? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 18 hours ago, Miller3857 said: There is no voltage when it gets stuck, there is no power what’s so ever feeding the actuator at that time... Understood.. I'm wondering if for some reason the super capacitor doesnt store or provide enough power to close the valve leaving it stuck open. I can think of a few reasons.. Perhaps the valves are stiff, needing too much power? Perhaps stats that switch on/off too frequently discharge the capacitor? So when its needed to turn off the actuator it runs out of energy? If I was designing auto balancing actuators I would give them three wires so they have a permanent live available to power the motor when turning off the valve. But that would mean they aren't direct drop in replacements for standard actuators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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