Planning Amendment vs Full Planning Application

[harry_angel]

Hi all, can anyone - in brief - explain what the difference is between a planning amendment application (to PP already secured) vs a full-blown new application?

 

We have added some (PD sized) dormers to an outbuilding without PP, I am proposing to remove 2 of the said 5 dormers as a volumetric gesture to the council, which would be submitted as an amendment to the existing PP. Our planning consultant thinks we have a solid shot of getting these dormers across the line via a full app, however...

 

The LPA are trying to edge me down the route of submitting a full planning application, which I am reluctant to do a) because I deem it unnecessary and b) because with a full app this gives them (in my cynical view!) more ways to come at me.

 

Finally, I really can't be bothered with the rigmarole of them flyer-ing all the deranged neighbours again, which is what would happen with a full app.

 

So what is the difference between the two? Where does an Amendment end and a Full App begin?

[Bitpipe]

From my own experience, you can submit a Non Material Amendment (lower app fee and simple yes/no decision) to an existing approval for minor tweaks - I did one that increased the front windows from 1000mm to 12000 mm and added solar PV to rear. As it was a tweak, I did the drawing adjustments myself and they were accepted.

 

However it's at the planners discretion as to whether the amendment is non material. If not, you will need to do a full planning app again.

 

I put in a second NMA for solar panels on front elevation and this was rejected as it affected the street scene. 

 

From the planning portal ...

 

Government does not provide a statutory definition of ‘non-material’, it is down to the  Local Planning Authority to be satisfied that any amendment(s) sought are ‘non-material’ in order to be eligible for this type of application.

[harry_angel]

Thanks @Bitpipe

 

Wow, again, that is extraordinarily loose and unhelpful from central Gov. 

 

"There you go LPAs, restrict as you see fit and then retire to Wetherspoon's on a Friday at 4pm to compare notes and circle-j&rk about which poor homeowner you gleefully blocked this week".

 

I will never. Ever. Understand the mentality of those who proactively of their own accord, select that job. Never. 

[Bitpipe]

Look at it like this - you'll need drawings done anyway so crack on with those.

 

Then chance your arm at the NMA and if you fail, you do the full app. The fee is lost but up to you if it's worth a punt.

 

We did 3 planning apps: first rejected, second approved (after a bun fight and threat to appeal) and then we did a third as there were changes well outside of NMA.

 

First one garnered lots of 'community comments', second fewer and third zero.

[harry_angel]

@Bitpipe All v helpful, thanks

 

Btw, what happens to councils when they lose appeals? I vaguely recall someone telling me if they lose too many, they're on the government naughty step, or there's some kind of financial penalty if they lose?

 

We reclaimed our PD rights, that had been ignorantly signed away by our predecessors, and were surprised the council didn't try and force us down the appeals route simply out of spite.

 

But I assume it was because they didn't think it was one they could possibly win...

 

[joe90]

6 minutes ago, harry_angel said:

I will never. Ever. Understand the mentality of those who proactively of their own accord, select that job. Never. 

you don’t have to convince me, my only revenge was going to appeal the local planners decision to refuse and winning hands down, the appeal officer even told the planners they were not abiding by their own rules,!!!! ?(and that’s the second time I have won a planning refusal).

[Ferdinand]

5 minutes ago, harry_angel said:

@Bitpipe All v helpful, thanks

 

Btw, what happens to councils when they lose appeals? I vaguely recall someone telling me if they lose too many, they're on the government naughty step, or there's some kind of financial penalty if they lose?

 

We reclaimed our PD rights, that had been ignorantly signed away by our predecessors, and were surprised the council didn't try and force us down the appeals route simply out of spite.

 

But I assume it was because they didn't think it was one they could possibly win...

 

 

Every Appeal costs the Council money to pay for prep.

[harry_angel]

13 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

 

Every Appeal costs the Council money to pay for prep.

 

Sure, but is there any other penalty force in play? I assume central gov keep an eye on how many appeals are coming from each LPA, and how many are lost...

[joe90]

I did hear on the grapevine (local councillor) that my local council planners were in danger of being taken into “special measures” (whatever that means?).

[Ferdinand]

13 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I did hear on the grapevine (local councillor) that my local council planners were in danger of being taken into “special measures” (whatever that means?).

 

Government appointed supervision / management because the thing has gone to hell in a handcart.

 

[harry_angel]

34 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

 

Government appointed supervision / management because the thing has gone to hell in a handcart.

 

 

That would be like some kind or nirvana to just sit there tutting disapprovingly as the LPA's officers are torn a new one by some grand chien from central gov.

[Temp]

2 hours ago, harry_angel said:

So what is the difference between the two? Where does an Amendment end and a Full App begin?

 

As far as I can tell if they think the neighbours need consulting or it would impact local area then the go full app. 

 

Do your dormers overlook neighbours or are they very visible from the road?

Edited January 20, 2021 by Temp

[harry_angel]

Three dormers currently overlook one neighbour's garden. His dwelling house is fully 23m away.

 

We're pitching them on the idea of 3 dormers being reduced to 1 on that side.

 

That aside, the outbuilding is over 100m from any other property bar our own.

 

 

[the_r_sole]

if you are creating new overlooking onto a private garden then it's definitely something which will require a planning application, that's a very material consideration

[harry_angel]

3 minutes ago, the_r_sole said:

if you are creating new overlooking onto a private garden then it's definitely something which will require a planning application, that's a very material consideration

 

Well, PP has already been approved for large veluxes overlooking....

 

So: the neighbour* can either have obscure-glass, no-opening dormers or he can have transparent, opening veluxes...

 

I know which I'd prefer.

 

*the worst type, fyi

[the_r_sole]

rooflights are treated very differently to dormer windows in planning terms, whether or not you agree with it

[Mr Punter]

From my understanding, trivial alterations would be a 'non-material amendment', more major changes, but not increasing impact on neighbours etc would be a 'minor material amendment' and would seek to vary the condition referring to the drawings in the original application.  'Material amendments' include changes that would affect neighbours and this would will need a new application.

[Ferdinand]

4 hours ago, harry_angel said:

 

That would be like some kind or nirvana to just sit there tutting disapprovingly as the LPA's officers are torn a new one by some grand chien from central gov.

 

Here you go for a description of Special Measures. It has only been applied to 3 LPAs - that is once every 10 years. You are quite special ? .

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Special_measures_designation_for_under-performing_planning_authorities

 

Special measures designation for under-performing planning authorities

Section 62A of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 allows certain applications to be made directly to the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government where a local planning authority has been 'designated'.

The Growth and Infrastructure Act 2013 gave the Secretary of State power to 'designate' local planning authorities if their performance in handling major planning applications was below an acceptable standard.

Under the original provisions of the Act, local planning authorities could be designated as under-performing and placed under 'special measures' by the Secretary of State if:

• 30% or fewer of their decisions on major applications were made within the statutory determination period or such extended period agreed in writing with the applicant. The statutory period is 13 weeks, unless an application is subject to Environmental Impact Assessment, in which case it is 16 weeks. A major application is an application for 10 homes or more, or the equivalent commercial floorspace.
• More than 20% of major applications decisions were overturned on appeal.

Local planning authorities under special measures have applications determined by the planning inspectorate and lose a proportion of the application fee. Special measures designation is reviewed annually to allow improving authorities to regain their determination powers.

However, on 28 November 2014, in response to a consultation on the criteria for identifying under-performing planning authorities, the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) announced its intention to raise the threshold for decisions on major applications from 30% to 40%. Ref Planning performance and planning contributions.

Then, on 24 August 2015, following publication of ‘Fixing the foundations’, the government formally revised the threshold again to 50 per cent. Ref Improving planning performance: criteria for designation. The government pointed out that up until that time, only three planning authorities had been subject to special measures and two of those had subsequently had their designation lifted.

In November 2016, the government published Improving planning performance Criteria for designation (revised 2016) Presented to Parliament pursuant to section 62B of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990. This will increase the threshold for major projects to 60% and for non-major projects of 70%, but will also introduce a quality threshold of 10%. The quality threshold relates to the percentage of the total number of decisions made by the authority on applications that are then subsequently overturned at appeal. The criteria have effect from the day following the end of the statutory 40 day period during which Parliament may consider the measures, provided neither House resolves not to approve it.

[harry_angel]

17 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

More than 20% of major applications decisions were overturned on appeal.

 

Gonna start quoting this stat at officers repeatedly, for my own amusement.

 

"You really don't want to be in that 20%, Janet..."

[the_r_sole]

11 minutes ago, harry_angel said:

 

Gonna start quoting this stat at officers repeatedly, for my own amusement.

 

"You really don't want to be in that 20%, Janet..."

 

You don't have a major application, I'd say 20% is a very low bar too 

I've got a 90% record of success on planning appeals - actually make that 85% forgot about one where they retained a condition

Edited January 21, 2021 by the_r_sole