roof lantern and roof leaks

[tillywiz]

flat roof epdm done and roof lantern installed  no fall on roof now leaking does anyone know of a competent roofing and lantern installer who would inspect and asses problem and complete a report for submission to the conservatory company to redo  or if necessary to  alternative dispute resolution service as we think it may come to that.

[Mr Punter]

@MJNewton of this forum had similar issues and was persistent enough to get them resolved.

[MJNewton]

In my case whilst I didn't have the usual 1:40-1:80 falls in the end I opted to settle for what I did have given I was using a liquid PU coating that doesn't require any fall at all (but can benefit from one, but not for waterproofing reasons).

 

For EPDM, particularly if there any joins, I would likely push for rectification. Do you know who made the EPDM? Even if not, looking up a brand that does and see what their spec sheets say/require. 

 

Incidentally, insufficient falls don't themselves cause leaks - if there's a leak there's a hole or detailing issue.

 

Can you elaborate on what you've got, what's happened etc? Photos are always good even just so we're all picturing the same thing. 

[tillywiz]

hi mr newton the epdm has a felt backing do not know the make  and the installer put it on in meter widths because that was the roll he got or had already no fall on the roof so pooling all acros the back where the roof tiles come down the lantern was not the one we were told per contract we think we have tracked the make down to stratus but it looks like anyone and his dog can produce the stratus make under licence.the roof leaked before the lantern was put on and was supposed to have been fixed first at one side but now looks like both back sides and one end at the front .also the lantern itself seems to be leaking through the peak at one side  and the inside cover appears to be glued on with {evostick) type glue.the two roof pics showing the epdm as it was before the lantern was added and we were told that the corners had been recified.i have only been able to add a couple of the internal leak but i think you will see the level of water ingress.

the company are supposed to be getting back to us after the holiday but finding all the leaks and leaving all the joins would not be satisfactory so we would like an independant person as we feel the whole thing should come off and be redone also it appears that the upstand is not high enough and goodness knows what has gone on under the tiles and my concern is that they are just going to want to bodge things again .if he does not want to redo the job properly i would like to know the correct price for someone else to do the whole roof from scratch the condensation is terrible and is right the way up both sides of all the truts and all the way along just above the upstand on the edge of the lantern.if you want pics i will do them on the next bit.

[MJNewton]

I must admit that doesn't look good. Thinking positively though, the worse it is the easier it is to justify redoing (perhaps completely) rather than being in the position where its not right but it's not (yet, at least) causing an issue. 

 

I think surveyors can provide valid independent opinions on this sort of thing. Flat roofs and openings are not particularly specialist constructions and so all surveyors ought to have sufficient knowledge to speak authoritatively about them. 

[PeterW]

Kerb isn’t high enough by a long way - should be minimum 150mm from the deck that close to tiles. Also doesn’t look like it is insulated either ..?

 

Roofing is rubbish; corner reinforcement looks like it was put on by a child. 
 

Needs 2 courses of tiles removed, ply put onto the roof lapped under the membrane then the rubber run up the roof. Kerb needs extending higher and preferably insulating but you may have problem with that now. 
 

And what is that socket blank covering. ..???!

[tillywiz]

that socket blank was for puting in an electric blind if needs be since certain quarters were going to refuse permission on a dark skys policy , hassle dont ask.said to much light from downlighters so dimmer also had to be put in.

 

[Big Jimbo]

Upstand not high enough. Should be 150mm minimum high. Rubber roof is badly done. Ive done loads of epdm. It's not hard to do it right, and very easy to make a pigs ear of it. IMO your rubber falls looks badly done. If you look at the bottom edge of your lantern, you can see that it is filthy. Thats from water splash because your upstand is too short.

[Russell griffiths]

I personally think the whole design is wrong

if all the water coming from the main house roof is being projected onto that flat roof then it should have been designed to take all that extra water

i would want to see a box gutter arrangement ro the two back sides of the lantern collecting and guiding the main roof water off to the front edge. 

 

Was this an existing roof roof that you have just done a refurb on, it’s poorly designed and poorly executed. 

[tillywiz]

Hi jumbo

right from day one we complained about the epdm and was informed that it would be recified lock down did not help the situation but everytime we said something it was dismissed with one excuss or another.told the roof did not need a fall.told epdm could be done with metre wide roll and it looks like some of the parts of the lantern were lost to .

[tillywiz]

Hi russell

i panicked just then as the bloke who did it was called russell , no the flat roof and lantern were new it was an infill orangery. The only water off the roof is the two sides and that back section with a small dormer in go into a fully crated soakaway the other sides of both peaks and all allong the other back side of the house go into two more sepatete soakways.The thought of russell messing up box gutters does not bear thinking about.what i do know is it is going to end up with a lot of hassle as the conservatory bloke will just want to come back and bodge it.

[PeterW]

@tillywiz does this all run off the 4th side ..?? Difficult to see the layout from these photos. 
 

You can do rubber with 1m wide rolls but it needs to be done with the correct laps and only on a roof with a fall otherwise the joints collect water. 
 

Have you got any photos of it being done..? 

 

 

[tillywiz]

yes the water runs off the fourth side and when he did the rubber we said that he seemed to be doing it wrong but felt we could not realy interfere the first atempt was when we first complained about the standard the second pic here is his redo of one of the corners  not sure whats happened with the picture but you get the idea of the shoddy work.we were

[tillywiz]

we were told categicaly that with a lanter the roof should not have a fall hence so much pooling at the back i will try to find a picture of the front without the infill so it will show the roof.

 

[PeterW]

10 minutes ago, tillywiz said:

we were told categicaly that with a lanter the roof should not have a fall

That’s correct - well, partially .... a lantern shouldn’t have a fall, but the roof around it should ..!!

 

And those tiles are too low - should be further up so looks like they haven’t done the bottom properly either. Tiles shouldn’t rest on the membrane. 

[joe90]

 I hate flat roofs myself but have done quite a few but in GRP (my favourite flavour). I always put a slight fall on a flat roof and never had one problem. Those upstands, tiles and quality of work is crap IMO (SORRY).

[tillywiz]

thanks joe 90

i am getting used to crap work now but finding someone who isnt is a real problem.we are questioning wether we should get grp done and a new lantern from atlas which was on the spec in the first place what we are considering is getting out from under the company altogether  if having got compensation out of him and then  having it all redone .thanks to pete russell etc insisted that the roof did not need a fall.as for the tiles russell did break one shoveing it up .we had already said we were not happy with russell doing it but they went ahead anyway saying he would not mess up and incidently we were supposed to have a 75cm walkway all round to sort out the leaves as we have a very large beech tree on the boundry and a load more trees across the lane now with the lantern on there isnt much room to move.

[joe90]

Nothing wrong with the lantern as long as it’s on a 150mm minimal upstand (and a waterproof roof ?).

[joe90]

8 minutes ago, tillywiz said:

i am getting used to crap work now but finding someone who isnt is a real problem.

I always tell people to go by reputation, not flash adverts, find a proper GRP roofer and ask for customers who have had work done by them and are willing to get a call from you.

[tillywiz]

the top point of the lantern is leaking also ,and the conservatory company had glowing reports but i realy think grp seems to be the way to go after the mess up of no fall on the roof is fixed.

so we awaite the co. respnse

[Russell griffiths]

I would be looking at something else rather than grp, it’s very moisture sensitive when installing, if you will be looking at doing this in the next few months. 

I would look for somebody that does the new single component modified polymers, I’ve just done my flat roof in a product called DESMOPOL 

i did it on a damp day and it rained lightly 3 hours after I had finished, very happy with it, but it has only been on a week. 

[PeterW]

28 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

 

I would look for somebody that does the new single component modified polymers, I’ve just done my flat roof in a product called DESMOPOL 

i did it on a damp day and it rained lightly 3 hours after I had finished, very happy with it, but it has only been on a week. 

Did you use the membrane / reinforcing too or just the Desmopol on its own ..? Any vertical detailing as that’s always my query with these sort of products 

[Russell griffiths]

2 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Did you use the membrane / reinforcing too or just the Desmopol on its own ..? Any vertical detailing as that’s always my query with these sort of products 

I used the fleece membrane, just like glass fibre mat really, you get a thickening product that you mix in to do the upstands, it removes the self levelling properties 

exactly the same process as grp but without mixing in the catalyst. 

[PeterW]

Thanks - what was the cost in the end ..? Only thing that put me off was they only sell thickener for a 25Kg tin not the 6kg and that’s enough to do about 15sqm 

[Onoff]

@MJNewton, you used Desmopol, how's it fairing? 

 

It's getting so I'll HAVE to do something with my flat roof. Looking for something that could then take limited foot traffic a bit like @tillywiz wanted. I've this mad idea for a central skylight on a big flat roof and ballasted PV trays up there. Non slip walkways for cleaning etc.