Introduction - self build newbies

[deancatherine09]

Hi all,

 

I've been lurking for a few weeks so I thought it was time to introduce myself!

 

I'm Catherine & I live with my long term partner of 11 years, Dean, in our lovely detached house we bought last year. 

 

As much as we love this house, we quickly realised it didn't have the space outside for us to grow and accommodate all our projects (we like old cars and are restoring an vintage American trailer at the moment, and have caught the bug so this won't be the last) - so made the difficult decision to move on earlier this year.

 

We sold our house but struggled to find a house that ticks all the boxes within our budget, so when a plot with full PP came up on 0.3 acre plot of land in a perfect location we had a crazy moment and put an offer in, expecting to be outbid by developers . Well, there was lots of developer interest, but the elderly vendor had lived there most of his life (long story but he was splitting his large plot into two smaller, one with a house and one with full PP for one) and therefore he wanted to sell to us, a couple who would build our family home there rather than someone who would just look to profiteer. So to our amazement and I expect the frustration of the EA, he batted away all the developers and didn't want to know. The plot is perfect, there's plenty of space for a big workshop at the end of the garden and the house will be perfect for us with a couple of small tweaks to the current design. Also, the view is stunning, a real added bonus. We couldn't believe our luck!

 

So this all happened about a month ago, since then we have been frantically trying to sort financing. We have chosen to go through Ecology for the self build mortgage and need a small mortgage upfront on the plot (annoyingly!). We had our initial assessment and submitted our full application last week - so I am really hoping that all goes without a hitch. It was thanks to the countless positive reviews on here that we went with Ecology, we hadn't heard from them until I read on here! We had our financial advisor get us some mortgage options via Buildloan and they all had so many hidden fees and awkward terms, so I am glad we found Ecology, as they have been great to deal with so far.

 

The plan is for us to engage a main contractor for the watertight shell, and then project manage the build ourselves from then on, employing main trades and doing as much as we can DIY. There are two reasons for this, firstly to get the high spec finish we are looking for, the money won't stretch to get a main contractor to do the whole thing. Plus, when we extended our old house, we had an absolute mare with poor sparky and plumber that the main contractor provided, they were very poor quality and it caused a LOT of issues / stress (of course they were the contractors mates/family members). So we want the ability to choose our own contractors this time around. We are handy people, we restored our old house ourselves (excl the extension) and enjoy learning new trades - so will take on most of the internal fit out ourselves. Luckily we have no kids (yet) so more time to devote to the build around our day jobs. 

 

We do feel like we have a lot to learn but this forum so far has proved to be a wealth of information so I will continue reading and fingers crossed in a few months we get the "keys" to our er, plot, to start the real hard work!!

[TheMitchells]

sounds very exciting!  Great News re the plot - where in the country are you?? Look forward to hearing all about it.

 

[Bitpipe]

Well done, we also built from scratch with zero prior experience and came out the other side intact.

 

Ecology is a good start, they are excellent to work with and don't impose the painful staging sign-offs that many other do.

 

Consider living on site in a static to save money and stay close to your build.

 

Contracted shell and DIY / PMd interior is also what we did and works well for the novice.

 

We chose a passive timber frame from MBC and they also offer an insulated foundation as part of the same package (although we went off piste with a basement from a separate contractor) and within 8 weeks had a fully erected airtight and insulated frame, with windows, doors, slated roof and rendered exterior with all interior floors decked, all rooms stuff framed out and ready to launch into first fix.

 

Was easy to schedule our own window, roofing and render contractors around the frame erection schedule minimising scaffolding time.

 

Obviously a dozen different ways to do it from ICF to brick and block, SIPs etc but that worked well for us.

 

Good luck!

 

[deancatherine09]

Thanks both. We are located in Wiltshire currently but the plot is in Hampshire. 

 

At the moment the PP is for a more traditional brick & block house but we will be looking at alternative construction methods as we want to future proof the house. We are particularly environmentally conscious people anyway so want to make our build as sustainable as we can, within our budget. I will take a look at the MBC timber frame, thanks. Did you have any issues with remortgaging the house at the end of the 2 year period with a Timber frame?

 

Even if we do end up with a traditional block and brick construction, the plan is to use reclaimed bricks and either reclaimed slate or recycled plastic slate effect tiles on the roof. So hopefully lowering the carbon footprint of our build as much as we can.

 

We will have to live in a static on site, as we'd rather save money on rent which we can use on the build , and our family live too far away from our workplaces to be able to move in with them. So that will be fun! 

[joe90]

Welcome, I built ours in brick and block and despite some opinions is very airtight due to attention to detail and well insulated. Brick needs no maintenance unlike most other finishes (and I like it). With regard trades, word of mouth!, it’s never too early to get reviews from people regarding this. A good review or two is worth more than all the adverts in the world. I cannot recommend our builder and his trades enough, they were brilliant (but too far from you). Bear in mind good trades usually  have a long lead time so planning is important looking forward to questions and pics.

[Bitpipe]

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

Welcome, I built ours in brick and block and despite some opinions is very airtight due to attention to detail and well insulated. 

 

Completely agree, any build method can be made airtight with the proper attention to detail, ditto insulation. Don't confuse future proofing with requiring a modern method of construction. 

 

B&B has the advantage of being the UK standard so easy to source materials and labour, the trade off against TF is the time required on site, impact of weather and the ratio of spend on labour vs materials. You also have the opportunity to get some real craftwork with talented brick layers.

 

I don't believe planners can dictate how the structural fabric of the building is built and can only stipulate the external finish. A brick exterior can be applied to any structure (block, timber, ICF, SIPs) you just need to make sure the foundation detail supports it and does not create cold bridging. You can also look to see if brick slips would be an acceptable finish to yourselves and the planners.

 

I've had no issues in re-mortgaging or insuring TF, even with a render finish, with high st banks and insurance companies. We chose it because as novices, there was peace of mind getting the whole structure and internals in one package and to a contracted insulation and airtightness standard. We just needed to schedule windows (easy to order off plan ahead of time as the TF is factory made) and schedule roofer and render contractors to be on site when the frame was erected and scaff was still up. That got us weather tight in 8 weeks and gave us a lot of confidence to PM the rest of the build.

 

Do be aware that reclaimed bricks may cost you more than you save and are often shipped in from Eastern Europe or further afield. At the start of our build I found and cleaned over 1500 1970s stock imperial red brick on sites. I spoke to our local reclaim yard, who specialise in bricks, and they wouldn't touch them. They told me that pre-1920 bricks are the premium, especially if lime mortar was used vs cement (as that is hard to remove efficiently). They also told me that the vast majority of recycled bricks are coming from Eastern Europe as previously undeveloped buildings are taken down for new - the labour economics probably make it work there too.

 

Extensive use of recyled materials can generate a lot of wastage and also slow your trades down if they're discarding every other brick or slate. The recycled plastic slates have had good reviews here by others but be aware that not every roofer will want to work with them.

 

My advice (and it is only that) is to concentrate on getting your design as low energy as possible (good insulation, airtightness) and then choose a build fabric that works for you. Understand solar gain - where it will be useful and where it will be a nuisance and plan efficient heating and cooling systems from the outset that work with your house as an overall system. Cooling is becoming more and more relevant as our winters get milder and summers hotter. Acres of south or west facing glass can quickly make your house unpleasantly hot even in spring and autumn when the sun is lower in the sky.

 

Consider how to minimise your need (and match to what you have available on site) for energy to space heat (and cool), generate domestic hot water and use of water through efficient appliances before you consider water harvesting technology and the like. 

 

Solar PV can still be beneficial if you have the appropriate roof aspect even without the FiT payments. If you use in roof trays you save on roofing materials. A split air con system can effectively run for free daytime in the summer when it is most needed etc.

 

Anyway, you get the gist. We're a bit more practical on this site vs other green forums

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Bitpipe

[deancatherine09]

Thanks Joe & Bitpipe.

 

Lots of food for thought. I have made contact today with MBC to assess feasibility with our project. I have been reading their website and its incredible what they can achieve in terms of thermal efficiency - so I am really keen to see if we can work with them. I do like the look of reclaimed brick ground floor and timber clad first floor, with a slate roof, but we could still achieve this either with brick slips or a full outer brick wall. 

 

Good point re wastage - for this reason we were strongly leaning towards the recycled tiles vs reclaimed slate but you make a good point re the bricks. We actually have a very good reclamation yard under a mile from the plot site where we sourced bricks for our old garden wall, so naturally wanted to use them as much as practicable in the build. 

 

Solar gain and which systems to use (MVHR / ASHP  etc etc) is one thing we just haven't got our head around yet so will need to research a lot here before we decide. The back of the plot is SE facing but the S direction is overlooking fields so naturally we want to make the most of those views. We know that our current house was not designed with solar gain in mind as the back is a large oak / glass elevation which looks stunning but the master bedroom is uninhabitable in the summer due to the heat. 

[joe90]

Re, reclaimed brick not being as green as we think, I used “tumbled bricks” basically new bricks put in a huge tumble drier and all the corners knocked off. Everyone comments on them being “in keeping” and looking old.

[Gus Potter]

Hello deancathrine09.

 

Well done taking the plunge.

 

You may want to post a site plan that shows the slope of the ground and so on. Also, any information you may have gleaned on the ground and services and so on. It may seem a bit early but if you can try and firstly understand how the ground supports (and how the insulated slab interacts with the ground) insulted slabs / eco type houses then this will help you make a more informed decision. Much of the financial risk and design is driven by what is under the ground. If you can get a handle on this early then it can give you more certainty as to how much you have available to spend on the finishes and so on. It may sound complicated but the principles are actually fairly simple... and you'll get practical advice here if you get stuck.

 

The next step may to be to gain a deeper understanding of how the house stays up.. the structure. This can help you work out what you do and don't need, from say a TF manufacturer and thus what you can do practically do yourselves.

 

You'll get plenty information here! Just remember to remove any identifying marks from any drawings etc so as to avoid copywrite issues etc.

 

All the best and enjoy the journey.

 

 

 

 

[Bitpipe]

On 04/12/2020 at 17:48, deancatherine09 said:

Thanks Joe & Bitpipe.

 

Lots of food for thought. I have made contact today with MBC to assess feasibility with our project. I have been reading their website and its incredible what they can achieve in terms of thermal efficiency - so I am really keen to see if we can work with them. I do like the look of reclaimed brick ground floor and timber clad first floor, with a slate roof, but we could still achieve this either with brick slips or a full outer brick wall. 

 

Good point re wastage - for this reason we were strongly leaning towards the recycled tiles vs reclaimed slate but you make a good point re the bricks. We actually have a very good reclamation yard under a mile from the plot site where we sourced bricks for our old garden wall, so naturally wanted to use them as much as practicable in the build. 

 

Solar gain and which systems to use (MVHR / ASHP  etc etc) is one thing we just haven't got our head around yet so will need to research a lot here before we decide. The back of the plot is SE facing but the S direction is overlooking fields so naturally we want to make the most of those views. We know that our current house was not designed with solar gain in mind as the back is a large oak / glass elevation which looks stunning but the master bedroom is uninhabitable in the summer due to the heat. 

 

You're welcome, we've all learned from others and through experience so happy to share

 

I would suggest that before you even consider build fabric, get the design right.

 

You then need to consider the whole house as a system. The aim is to make it comfortable to live in year round with minimal energy required to keep comfortably warm / cool. If you design keys parts too independently of each other then you will struggle to make it work.

 

So, understand how the currently designed house sits on the plot, how that works with the movement of the sun during the day and during the seasons. If you already love the design then invest in a PHPP model to understand how it will perform (like a SAP model on steroids) - Ecology would have looked for something similar I expect for the application.

 

If solar overheating looks to be an issue, you can still achieve dramatic views and glazing aesthetic without acres of glass - in fact sometimes less can be more in that respect and also helps with the budget as the structure is simplified and less spent on glazing. Alternately, external shading (we have motorised exterior Venetian style blinds) can dramatically cut gain on exposed aspects and also give you privacy and save the cost of curtains :). Any roof light (velds style) should have an external blind, internal can work too. Thicker walls let you set the glazing back 100mm or so which also helps.

 

Given it already has full PP, you should be able to tweak aspects and put them through again as the hardest part is often getting the PP initially. Sometimes they won't need another planning app and can be submitted as non material ammendments.

 

Once you understand the u values and airtightness needed from your model, you need from the model, then you can shop around TF companies and other methods of building plus glazing & door systems.

 

You'll also understand your space heating requirement and can design around that - if you only have electric on site then ASHP is a likely candidate.

 

For a house with a high degree of airtightness, MVHR is a given but don't expect it to substantially contribute to heating & cooling - it can act as a trim in a very efficient house. Split aircon is becoming more popular, especially in southern England where summers are getting hotter.

 

Plan for in roof PV, even without the FiT it will contribute significantly to your energy requirements year round.

 

You will need to do some kind of ground investigation, per comments above, to design any foundation system - especially a passive style raft. As these are insulated off the ground on load bearing EPS you can put the UFH pipes straight into the concrete and save on insulation & screeds etc. 

 

Low energy houses rarely need any heating upstairs  - our 400m2 4 storey house only has UFH heating on the ground floor - nothing in basement or bedrooms or room in roof. Electric UFH and wet towel rads in bathrooms.

 

 

[deancatherine09]

Hi Bitpipe and Gus,

 

Thanks so much for your detailed replies, I wanted to properly digest the contents of them before I replied hence the delay

 

At the moment the site is a fairly flat, laid to lawn garden. It has on it a couple of small outbuildings (greenhouse & shed) and a double garage, all to be demolished in the build. The services (only electric and water as there is no gas supply on the road) are already there as they service the main house but obviously we will need to T these off and have our own metered supply. We will need to do this early on if we are to live in a static onsite, which is the plan. I've popped the topographic plan and a couple of photos below - any comments based on those from more knowledgeable people are most welcome. The build covers pretty much the whole space from just behind where I was stood taking the photo up to the end of the wooden structure in the picture. On the drawing, it's the house in the middle but the drawing shows the relationship to the current house the plot is being split from. The house next door has been knocked down and rebuilt since the drawing was done, so it's much larger & closer to the boundary now (as evidenced by the picture).

 

The current house design is a nice size, but a bit too complex for us, we prefer a more contemporary simpler looking build. After speaking to the local MBC rep he mentioned a local firm of architects who specialise in passive style houses and have worked with MBC on a few projects in the past. I had an initial chat with them and have sent the existing plans and a few design preferences to them for a fee proposal to tweak the existing planning permission once we own the site. The main idea is just to reduce the pitch and complexity of the roof to create more usable space upstairs.

 

We did a SAP assessment for the mortgage and got it over the threshold required for the mortgage by adding a PV system - this was before we started exploring the idea of SIP and Passive style building. I do hope that if we decide to go down that route, seeing as the SAP will undoubtedly improve and from my initial calcs / quotes won't cost much more than a traditional build - that they would be happy with us amending the construction method to SIP/Timber. We had to move quickly with the mortgage app to get the conveyancing process moving along so didn't have time to properly research the construction methods and defaulted to brick and block.

 

Bitpipe, that really is amazing that you can keep the whole house warm with such little heat source. I suppose I am so used to living in traditional houses! How do you manage your water heating if you don't mind me asking? 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited December 10, 2020 by deancatherine09

[JanetE]

MBC did a great job for us. We loved the fact that they do everything, slab, build, and airtightness guarantee.  We've been living in our house now for 3 years, so different from the old farmhouse we used to live in which was draughty and cost so much to heat.  We heat our 240m2 house with a willis heater, basically an immersion heater, similar to the ones you get in a hot water tank, with underfloor heating on the ground floor only. I can't recommend them too highly.

[Weebles]

On 04/12/2020 at 09:51, deancatherine09 said:

We will have to live in a static on site, as we'd rather save money on rent which we can use on the build

We are another set of survivors from a static caravan on site. Now coming out the other end intact with a house that we have built. Can’t quite believe it!

Also used Ecology and MBC and many other recommendations from people on this forum. We have gas (already on site and cheaper than ASHP and budget becomes an issue at some point). Underfloor heating downstairs only. Currently a very pleasant 18 degrees and heating hardly on.

Good luck. 

[GaryA]

Your project sounds really interesting. I hope it is fun. I have found the most difficult aspect to be finding good sub contractors to come on board with self  builds.  I have been trying to find a plumber to assist me with a self build loft conversion but as yet noone has come back with a quote.  I think it is reasonable to assume that as plumbers, electricians, roofers, carpenters(joiners) etc work together with local builders they dont have the same commitment to working independently on larger projects. Due to their reluctance to get involved it is essential that detailed 'building regulations' drawings are prepared so they are absolutely clear about what they have to do.  

[deancatherine09]

Thanks Janet and Weebles for your positive reviews of MBC. They have cetainly impressed me so far. One question that I never asked and wish I had is surrounding their payment terms, if we are on an Ecology arrears mortgage we won't have the full amount available upfront (probably 80%-90% of it though) - did you pay them in instalments & is the last payment after erection of the frame so I can get a valuation done to release the next tranche of funds? 

 

GaryA - we have actually had a pleasing response from trades to our request for an initial quote (ballpark as no full spec yet). At this stage it's just to try and build a relationship with a couple of trades so that when we have a full spec we can get quotes from our preferred trades without having to start from scratch. Plenty of Electricians and Plasterers, not as many plumbers but we contacted one that seems really good, and has worked on lots of new builds too. I expect they add a premium for an independent job but so far the preliminary quotes we have received have been in line with what we expected. We will be making sure the building regulation drawings are done and passed over to them for the final quote.

Edited December 14, 2020 by deancatherine09

[deancatherine09]

Just a quick update on this. We took ownership of our plot (finally) on 1st April 2021. Off to the NSBRC on Saturday for more research and architect appointment next Wednesday, so it's full steam ahead now.

[ToughButterCup]

Good luck.

The NSBRC visits I did were the most useful visits of many done in prepartion for our build. Photograph everything and organise them so you can make quick reference to them later -

It was blue wasn't it? No it was red ...... you know all that sort of thing.

Ian

[graham1]

I introduce myself as a newbie ASHP user. I have various questons but will wait until I have access to forum