Gorlando Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Hi Everyone, I only found the site a couple of days ago and I've already followed some interesting leads from previous discussions. Me and the Mrs are planning to demolish and re-build her mothers dilapidated bungalow on a 6.3 acre rural plot in Stoke on Trent for us and our two young boys + an annexe for the Mrs's mum. Early days yet, but we are busy sorting the finances out at present and preliminary meets with an architect and a building surveyor for ideas and opinions surrounding the plot. The realistic start of the build phase is probably 2019, I'm happy to take extra time planning, preparing & deciding as much as possible. I'm sure buildhub will help. Main points of interest at present are: to project manage or not project manage? Smart home installation and Brick and Block vs Timber frame. Also, very interested to meet with previous self builders and people going through the build phase that may live locally (within 50 miles) for advice and opinions.I'm sure the appropriately titled discussions will be posted in due course. So for now....HELLO...and thanks in advance! Giuseppe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Hi and welcome to the forum. That sounds like a very interesting project. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Hi Giuseppe. Welcome to the forum! 42 minutes ago, Gorlando said: The realistic start of the build phase is probably 2019, I'm happy to take extra time planning, preparing & deciding as much as possible. I'm sure buildhub will help. That's a healthy attitude and approach. Bear in mind that two years will FLY by! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Welcome 1 hour ago, Gorlando said: Main points of interest at present are: to project manage or not project mange? Smart home installation and Brick and Block vs Timber frame. This all depends on what experience you have in both areas. From what I have read on here, and my own experiences as both a project/production manager (different industries, but sometimes related), I would go for a project manager and a timber frame until made weather tight. Then organise your own subcontractors. Initial design is where you can save the money. Make it complicated and it will cost you, make it high tech and smart, it will cost a lot and probably not work. All a house is, is a thermally insulated, airtight box. Then you start to put 'holes' in it for things like doors and windows, heating and ventilation systems, wires and plumbing (and a cat flap). I often get the feeling that people start thinking about designing a house the wrong way around. The interior can become more important than the structure and this complicates things no end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 If you get a package of some sort, whether from a timber frame firm or a traditional builder, a PM should really not be necessary unless you have zero time to spend on the project or have a very complex project. PMs are not cheap, they will want a min of 10% of the build cost and that is based on their estimation, not yours. We engaged one early on and spent £1800 on a detailed budget and PHPP analysis before disengaging. We got some value for money, having next to no idea what we were doing, and the cost plan put us down the more cost effective road of timber frame vs ICF which had been our original idea. It also gave us a useful structure to plan to for costing and estimating. PHPP also gave us peace of mind that the design could work as a (near) passive house. That said, doing the PM ourselves, we came in about 20% less than their original cost plan suggested - no doubt they would have achieved similar but would have taken credit for the 'saving'. Note - I'm not disparaging PMs, I'm just suggesting that if you can put some time into managing the project yourself, or select good contractors from the outset, then you can make a substantial saving. We used lots of contractors and vendors, some for specific tasks and some for more general works but we did have a very comprehensive package from the groundworkers to build the basement and the timber frame firm to get us to airtightness (windows from separate firm). Using this forum and its predecessor, trades and fellow self builders, we managed to stay half a step ahead most of the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 PM + Architect + QS between them can add over 20% to a self-build. A self-build is invariably a one-off so will cost more than a like-for-like mass-built estate house, simply because the developer can amortise a lot of costs over N builds. This being said, with a self-build you and your partner have the opportunity to take on activities (if you can spare the time) that you might otherwise be paying £250-500 per day for. In our case, I've done a lot of PM in the IT world before I retired early; I also have a good 3D visualisation sense, and we wanted a fairly standard house in terms of layout, though passive-class in performance. So between Jan and I, we've done all of the design, PM, bureaucracy, and a lot of the internal trades, such as the carpentry, plumbing, etc. The end result is that we've probably saved ourselves maybe £60-80K on the cost of our build. There's a lot of other members here that have done likewise. Moreover, I suspect that there are less than a 100 commercially-build houses with comparable energy specification to ours coming on the market in UK annually. It's a long road and can be very stressful, but the payback can also be huge. And there are people here willing to help you on the journey . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 One other thing, and it's a personal view: we chose a frame+slab bundle tailored to our custom design from a specialist manufacturer that targets the passive-class market. I know of example builds where the scope of supply is stripped down and therefore a lot less. But you have to compare like-for-like. In our case we had three major subs: the slab and frame; the ground works and exterior, done by a local builder; and the windows . All of the other trades we either did ourselves or used the builder's subbies. The net result is a cosy warm house that looks really nice, costs bugger-all to maintain or to run -- for roughly the same price as a run-of- the-mill one-off development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlando Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 Thank you all for the responses and insight. I'm an electrician by trade, previously self employed, but now work as a Break-down engineer supervisor in a bakery, 4 on 4 off days/nights 6 until 6. 2 kids under 3. Obviously my concerns around full PM were the long periods I would be away from site, perhaps only being able to attend for an hour or two, if any, on work days. My kids will only be kids once as-well. My skill levels are good, I feel, plus my old boy has 40+ years experience in the building trade, completes nearly every task to a prof standard and the day job for him is a GasSafe Domestic Engineer. He really is a great resource. My brother is a GasSafe Domestic engineer also, and both self employed.We did a hell of a lot to my current house before we moved in also. I think taking over after a water tight shell is the way we'll end up. I have plenty of good skilled trade contacts, and people I can trust and communicate freely with. Saying that, I'm thinking of having no heating!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlando Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 10 minutes ago, TerryE said: One other thing, and it's a personal view: we chose a frame+slab bundle tailored to our custom design from a specialist manufacturer that targets the passive-class market. Would be greatful to know who you used terry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I could reply or just to make it more fun you could read my blog and a few others such as Jeremy Harris. There's about have a dozen of the frequent posters who have used the same supplier without any material complaints or even reservations, but others have used other TF suppliers and different construction techniques. What we chose worked for us. It might work for you. What others have chosen might also work for you. But at the end of the day, you have to make your choice as to what is best for you. If you ask here then you'll invariably get at least 2 or 3 perspectives. What I really like about this site, is that I often get out of my comfort zone, so I can research what others have done or just ask the Q. In return I give back where I do have the knowledge to contribute. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Hi and welcome to the forum . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlando Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 12 hours ago, SteamyTea said: Initial design is where you can save the money. Make it complicated and it will cost you, make it high tech and smart, it will cost a lot and probably not work. The interior can become more important than the structure and this complicates things no end. Your points are valid ones, thank you. I am very much trying to persuade the Mrs for a simple structure design with limited junctions and out-crops, which she appears to be on board with Fabric first is the design process I will focus on whoever we choose, and takes up 80% of my thoughts at present. The interior features still have to be considered I feel at this stage in terms of feasibility, costing and appropraite and considerate installation. Surely there are methods to install the desired features whilst maintaining the target air tightness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, Gorlando said: Surely there are methods to install the desired features whilst maintaining the target air tightness. There should be. The problems seem to stem from a change after the final design is agreed on. Take a kitchen extractor and MVHR. The two do not play nicely together, and both involve punching holes in the house. The same is true of a wood burner (not that these are recommended for so many reasons). If these are not agreed on at the very beginning, and space made to fit and maintain them, then some reshuffling can cause problems later. The last thing that you want to happen is that someone drills a hole through the vapour barrier, then decide that the pipe of cable would be better off 150mm to the left or right. It is also worth decide if you want a cold or warm roof at the very beginning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 @Gorlando Best to start a new topic in 'house design' so this exchange doesn't get lost . Cheers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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