Onoff Posted February 14, 2021 Author Share Posted February 14, 2021 With the old pump rotating freely I refitted but no dice ? just locking up still. New pump on and she fires and runs. In the absence of a gauge I decided as you suggested @dpmiller, to whip out the baffles and gauge the flame by eye for now (no sight gauge btw). Tbh I was amazed by the amount of crumbly, flaky, "debris" in there on the baffles. I don't remember it that bad when I last cleaned it out and made new baffles (2015?). What is it, something from incomplete combustion, mill scale off the baffle I made? All scraped off and hoovered up now. Little video, flame nearly reaching the back wall...look alright? VID_20210214_101704350.mp4 Just got to remember how the baffles went, as in gap at the front/back. Seem to recall having this issue before! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 That's why I like outside oil boilers. You can take the complete burner out, point it away from the boiler and turn it on to see what is happening. DO NOT try that with an inside boiler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 14, 2021 Author Share Posted February 14, 2021 She fires, she runs. All heating up here. Let's see how it goes but the pump looks the issue. Thanks for all the pointers and assistance ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 14, 2021 Author Share Posted February 14, 2021 B@ll@cks! ? Boiler stopped. No red lockout lamp on but pressing it (the combined lockout lamp/reset button) and she fired up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 At what point does the professional service at £75 exceed the amount you’ve spent on parts trying to fix this by guessing ..? I would get the local guy to look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 I would probably have just bought a complete new burner. Then perhaps refurbish the old one to keep as a spare. @Onoff did you ever pull the flame sensor probe out to look at it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 14, 2021 Author Share Posted February 14, 2021 13 minutes ago, PeterW said: At what point does the professional service at £75 exceed the amount you’ve spent on parts trying to fix this by guessing ..? I would get the local guy to look at it. He said for £75 he'll remove the baffles and clean it out (I've done that), replace the jet (I can do that but haven't gone there yet) and I think he said change the filter and "generally check it out". As above he said it gets to a point when he'll just at suggest changing the whole burner. Looks to be about £300 for a new burner online. I can do that. I'll make sure the pressure is correct to start with and ask the BiL (diesel fitter). I just want to know what the issue is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 14, 2021 Author Share Posted February 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, ProDave said: I would probably have just bought a complete new burner. Then perhaps refurbish the old one to keep as a spare. @Onoff did you ever pull the flame sensor probe out to look at it? Yep, clean as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 Flame size looks good. as to the clag in the chamber, excess air can do that, as can poor fuel quality. the only way to set them up right is to do it the right way- pressure gauge and combustion analyser. That's probably worth the £75 a year as you can blow 10% efficiency up the flue as excess air... But as to this one and it's lockouts? Being a Riello makes it really difficult as the pcb uses a tapping on the motor for it's power supply, but I'm looking at the lockout chart and there are no specifics for lockout w/ NO light so I'd be suspecting the box if there's a clean 50v from the motor. Open the box and look for dry joints. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 14, 2021 Author Share Posted February 14, 2021 38 minutes ago, dpmiller said: Flame size looks good. as to the clag in the chamber, excess air can do that, as can poor fuel quality. the only way to set them up right is to do it the right way- pressure gauge and combustion analyser. That's probably worth the £75 a year as you can blow 10% efficiency up the flue as excess air... But as to this one and it's lockouts? Being a Riello makes it really difficult as the pcb uses a tapping on the motor for it's power supply, but I'm looking at the lockout chart and there are no specifics for lockout w/ NO light so I'd be suspecting the box if there's a clean 50v from the motor. Open the box and look for dry joints. Ta. There's a bearing either end of the motor. If the one the pump end was dry then the fan end one might be too? Not a spare part, the bearings, according to the manual but 6202 2RS seem to be the beasties from a quick search. I've just ordered a couple from NI, says "fits Riello". Not even shown on the ga drawing: https://www.tubeclamps.co.uk/fittings.htm I'll look at the PCB too thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 14, 2021 Author Share Posted February 14, 2021 Just throwing it out there...could the external, fire check valve be mucky inside and/or the flow be slower in cold weather? I could have sworn I changed this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 did oil run out when you broke the oil line at the pump? Yes? firevalve is OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 14, 2021 Author Share Posted February 14, 2021 4 hours ago, dpmiller said: combustion analyser So what gases etc would you look for? Would an automotive one do? 1 minute ago, dpmiller said: did oil run out when you broke the oil line at the pump? Yes? firevalve is OK. It did but wondering if the flow is enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 your jet will be something like .55 USgal/hr and it's a one pipe system so that all the flow you need. No, a car one doesn't really do it. Your really looking at the balance between CO2 and O2 in the flue gas (it needs to be pretty badly rich before the CO starts rising in my experience) there's a kind of a knee-point in both of the gasses and you can balance them looking at flue gas temperature too. Minimum excess O2 that keeps the CO2 at specced levels, with no CO and minimum flue temps. Easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 14, 2021 Author Share Posted February 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, dpmiller said: your jet will be something like .55 USgal/hr and it's a one pipe system so that all the flow you need. No, a car one doesn't really do it. Your really looking at the balance between CO2 and O2 in the flue gas (it needs to be pretty badly rich before the CO starts rising in my experience) there's a kind of a knee-point in both of the gasses and you can balance them looking at flue gas temperature too. Minimum excess O2 that keeps the CO2 at specced levels, with no CO and minimum flue temps. Easy. The jet thing, 0.55USgal/hr....any relevance to the 0.9gals/h flow rate? Got the 90/120 model: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 jeez that's a monster for your wee bungalow... jet's either 0.75 or 1.0 but that's quoted at a standard pressure, so the actual recommended pressure varies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 14, 2021 Author Share Posted February 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, dpmiller said: jeez that's a monster for your wee bungalow... jet's either 0.75 or 1.0 but that's quoted at a standard pressure, so the actual recommended pressure varies. Never worked out the sq.m area here... Most of the big boiler is used heating cold loft space or under the suspended floor! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 Got the pressure gauge in the post today and found the pressure a tad high, nearly 9bar. Lowered to 8bar as per the book. Screws straight into the hex extension piece on the burner with some PTFE tape round the1/8" BSP thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted May 5, 2021 Author Share Posted May 5, 2021 Ah well! The burner has been running fine for nearly 3 months but started locking out again. Going to change those bearings next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted May 17, 2021 Author Share Posted May 17, 2021 @dpmiller, evening, figure you'll know! What's the mechanism on the reset button in the Riello burners? As in how does it work, what does it do exactly? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 think they're all electronic? Pressing it latches a relay in most likely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted May 22, 2021 Author Share Posted May 22, 2021 Bearings changed. New ones just slid on tbh. Cheap crap I guess. Squished the shaft ends in the toothed vice jaws a tad to rough 'em up a bit then used some medium strength Loctite too. A bit mucky with dirt / dust whatever in here. I wonder if that was blowing about a bit and obscuring the photocell occasionally? Reassembling now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted May 22, 2021 Author Share Posted May 22, 2021 Boiler hasn't missed a beat since changing the bearings. However it now has an annoying, underlying buzz/vibration though it rises and falls. I should have probably just done the cleaning in where the photo cell sits and tried it! ? Original bearings were SKF, new ones are unbranded. I'll take it apart again just to see if I've done anything wrong. I'll change the bearings to a better make. Have ordered a new (plastic) pump coupling, part number 3000443 that sits between the pump and motor. That's a bit worn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 30 Author Share Posted March 30 (edited) Got in yesterday and happened to say it felt a bit cold. "Oh yes, it was warm this morning but not as warm as it usually is!" said SWMBO. That plus she thought she could "smell oil" by the boiler. Oil boiler was starting then locking out, the 90-120 Riello RDB2 burner. Checked the cap, first, AOK. Photocell clean, solenoid ok. Plenty of oil. Traced to the pump. Chucked a pressure gauge on and zilch. Took the pump off and rotating the shaft it felt a bit gritty. Somehow I found what appeared to be a brand new pump sat in the garage! Chucked it on, set to 8bar and happy days! Last night everything working. Just came in today from a day's tree felling and and the bloody thing is locking out again. Edited March 30 by Onoff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 11 minutes ago, Onoff said: Just came in today from a day's tree felling Real fire tonight then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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