MortarThePoint Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 For various reasons we've had a time crunch and some pillars and the wall plate are going to go in the day before trusses. This makes me extremely nervous. The two pillars between the doors in the image below haven't been started. They are 140mm x 496mm and need to come up 2200mm. They then have a 90kg steel beam put on top to span over each doorway. The wall plate is then screwed to the top of the steel beams. On the rear there are some large lintels (1800 openings), but inner leaf masonry is already up to their bearings. That wall plate would be on mortar less than 24 hours old though. Garage trusses are coming with house roof trusses. Each garage truss weighs 130kg as they are attic trusses (one is a double and weighs 260kg). There are 16 trusses giving a total weight of 2.2t. That means there will be about 330kg of truss load bearing onto each of the pillars. In some ways that's equivalent weight to building 90cm of blockwork above the beams I guess. We lost some says last week and my brickie said he would come today but then cried off at 8pm last night. The trusses are coming on Tuesday. I see the following options: Crack on, it'll be fine. Advise on propping would be gratefully received. Delay truss install by a week, this would be house and garage. I'd be relaxed about this in the summer but with the weather we are racing to get watertight. Truss company can't delay by less than a week due to their schedule Rig something to store the garage trusses on site and then have a second day of crane (£500 + carpenter overhead) Something I haven't thought of I'm gutted the pillars haven't been built as that in my mind is the key part. There is the shock loading and non vertical loading of installation to worry about as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Cement Is “green” fir about a week (according to my builder), my west wall in block blew over, twice, during my build. Last time they built it they shored it with timber fir a week. Brickie admitted he drove past here 12 o’clock at night as he was worried it would not stay up. (We are fairly near the Atlantic). I would delay if at all possible, it’s all about risk management . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Put some rapid hardener into the mix which will help it cure much quicker if you really want it to. You could just load the truss up on Tues and rest them against the peaks then spread them on wed. This will give it an extra day to fully cure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 I would delay a week and get it all up properly. I would be more concerned about putting the steel beam in place than the trusses - that needs to be done carefully and I wouldn’t want it onto green mortar especially 2.2m columns. They can’t be built in a day either as they will just rock over - are they a single block wide at the back ..?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, Declan52 said: Put some rapid hardener into the mix which will help it cure much quicker if you really want it to. You could just load the truss up on Tues and rest them against the peaks then spread them on wed. This will give it an extra day to fully cure. Other than having to mix smaller batches and getting through it faster, is there any other downside to using a rapid hardener? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, PeterW said: I would delay a week and get it all up properly. I would be more concerned about putting the steel beam in place than the trusses - that needs to be done carefully and I wouldn’t want it onto green mortar especially 2.2m columns. They can’t be built in a day either as they will just rock over - are they a single block wide at the back ..?? The walls with the steel beams are 140mm inner leaf and have wind posts in the pillars. The walls at the back are cavity walls made of 100mm blockwork. I tried hard to get it all done before the the weekend so there were three days of cure, but brickie wanted to do something else (chimney) which I later discovered was due to cash flow. Lesson learnt there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, PeterW said: I would delay a week and get it all up properly. I would be more concerned about putting the steel beam in place than the trusses - that needs to be done carefully and I wouldn’t want it onto green mortar especially 2.2m columns. They can’t be built in a day either as they will just rock over - are they a single block wide at the back ..?? Voice of reason again Peter It would be madness to go near it the following day I would leave it to cure for at least a week 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 minute ago, MortarThePoint said: Other than having to mix smaller batches and getting through it faster, is there any other downside to using a rapid hardener? It's expensive. Even with rapid hardener your still relying on decent weather. A cold Day and frosty night is not what you want. With a 150mm wide wall you have a small chance of getting the wall built in one go but it will be very wobbly until the beam holds it in place. If it's at all windy then no chance the pillars stay in place. What's the weather forecast. Are the wind posts in place??? Is the truss company relying on your crane to unload the truss or can they unload them by hiab on the delivery lorry?? If they can unload them then still get them delivered on Tues and wait a few extra days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Declan52 said: Are the wind posts in place??? Yes, I got them in a couple of weeks ago 5 minutes ago, Declan52 said: Is the truss company relying on your crane to unload the truss or can they unload them by hiab on the delivery lorry?? If they can unload them then still get them delivered on Tues and wait a few extra days. The house and garage trusses are coming together so we want to get the house trusses in place on Tuesday. That wall plate has had over a week now. Truss company isn't hiab equipped. I could look to store the garage trusses on site but that's still at least £800 down the swanny. ? ☹️ Edited November 22, 2020 by MortarThePoint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Is the builder not just doing your job ..? And “cash flow” issues flag some huge alarm bells to me. What else has he got to do for you..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 Just now, PeterW said: Is the builder not just doing your job ..? And “cash flow” issues flag some huge alarm bells to me. What else has he got to do for you..?? I've contracted the brickie direct. He has staged payments and wanted to get the internal chimney to wall plate so he could submit an invoice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 So the garage is on a different stage ..?? But you need both up to wall plate at the same time for the roof..? Are you planning on roofing them both at the same time as assuming gable walls will need to be done, then that steel needs at least a week to set before you contemplate building anything off it. Garage lintels are notorious for twisting as they are unevenly loaded due to the shape of the gable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 I take it the rest of the corners and peaks are built and rock solid. If so rapid hardener in the mix, pray for a warm calm day and hope it sits in place. Your really rolling the dice though. Load the house up first and do the garage last but don't spread them. Let them sit there propped up till the house is done by the joiners. Should be at least a few days so maybe Fri or the Monday before they get to the garage by which time it should be solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 minute ago, PeterW said: So the garage is on a different stage ..?? But you need both up to wall plate at the same time for the roof..? Are you planning on roofing them both at the same time as assuming gable walls will need to be done, then that steel needs at least a week to set before you contemplate building anything off it. Garage lintels are notorious for twisting as they are unevenly loaded due to the shape of the gable. Yes garage is on a separate payment schedule. I wanted them both ready for truss installation on the same day. The garage gables are on the left and right of that image rather than the front of the garage where the doors are. The garage and house gables are going up after the chippie has done his truss work securing and bracing them in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Declan52 said: I take it the rest of the corners and peaks are built and rock solid. If so rapid hardener in the mix, pray for a warm calm day and hope it sits in place. Your really rolling the dice though. Load the house up first and do the garage last but don't spread them. Let them sit there propped up till the house is done by the joiners. Should be at least a few days so maybe Fri or the Monday before they get to the garage by which time it should be solid. I don't understand the term 'peaks'. The walls will be up all the way round to wall plate height with gables going in later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 I asked chippie if it is possible to hire a truss rack or something to store the trusses on. He talked about making platforms (possibly stacked pallets) and the strapping to the house scaffold. The scaffold wouldn't be taking any weight but would stop them toppling. I'd rather a dedicated rack of some description. A truss trailer? Any ideas? I definitely don't want the trusses lying flat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 The peaks are the gable walls. They are triangle shape so look like a peak.So there is nothing to lean the truss against then at either side?? If so then you can't set them all up on Tues to spread at a later day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Declan52 said: The peaks are the gable walls. They are triangle shape so look like a peak.So there is nothing to lean the truss against then at either side?? If so then you can't set them all up on Tues to spread at a later day. Yes nothing so secure them against I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Surely you wouldn't need a crane just for garage trusses If the rest is ready to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Delay it for a week. I don't understand how that will cost you money. If you risk it and you lose the piers it will be more than a week Avoidable structural collapse on a site does not look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Just get 2 treaties and put where the wall plate would be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Trestles (to store trusses) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Oz07 said: Surely you wouldn't need a crane just for garage trusses If the rest is ready to go Heavy trusses (130kg and 260kg) to bump up and that puts unkind forces on the walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz07 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 God they are heavy. Ignore me lol wouldn't want to handball them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Mr Punter said: Delay it for a week. I don't understand how that will cost you money. I could delay the garage and carry on with the house. It will cost due to a second day of crane, additional delivery charge and chippie overhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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