Jeremy Harris Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 14 minutes ago, Onoff said: Not to piss on your parade this early but I think STROMA require the 2391 (now 2394 & 5) to do EICRs. Could be wrong... I'm pretty sure you're right, but I think that, unlike the old days, you can now opt to just do the C&G 2391exam (it's back as of July last year). Back when I used to teach electrical engineering science to apprentice electricians, doing the full course (usually day release) was mandatory, IIRC. I believe that things have changed so that you can now just sit the C&G 2391 exam to get that part of the ticket (inspection and test). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 16 minutes ago, JSHarris said: I'm pretty sure you're right, but I think that, unlike the old days, you can now opt to just do the C&G 2391exam (it's back as of July last year). Back when I used to teach electrical engineering science to apprentice electricians, doing the full course (usually day release) was mandatory, IIRC. I believe that things have changed so that you can now just sit the C&G 2391 exam to get that part of the ticket (inspection and test). If that so, does that allow me to install and 1st / 2nd fix by default? eg competent to do one = competent to do the other? Was just reading this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 AFAIK, you need 2391 to do inspection and test, and 2393 for installations in dwellings. If you're confident enough you could do the 1 day Part P (2393) course (you don't need Part P in order to just do inspection and test, that's only needed for installation work) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 I think I've a load of 2391 past papers here too...somewhere...if I find them I'll send it all on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 There are online tests too. http://www.electricalcoursesuk.co.uk/exam/ I just did it and got 60% and I can't even wire a plug so you'll piss it !! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 28 minutes ago, newhome said: There are online tests too. http://www.electricalcoursesuk.co.uk/exam/ I just did it and got 60% and I can't even wire a plug so you'll piss it !! My point exactly. I could piss my gas, I just cannot be bothered as its not going to feature enough in my chosen scope of works / clientele. As quick as I can say "£350 for the day to connect and commission anyone?" a GSR fitter appears. All the liability then resides with them, plus they have their own insurances, are responsible for their own staff / PPE / H&S etc etc etc. I genuinely cannot be arsed. With electrical its a different ball game, as I'll find it impossible to avoid, and dragging an electrician around to do piddly little sign-offs is impractical and expensive. Time to stick an 'official' feather in my cap. The best guys to speak to tend to be the college lecturers, like when I considered doing my gas. They ( casually ) asked me some 'idiot identification and elimination' questions to see what I knew and told me I could probably get through in a week with a bit of swotting on flues / controls. Hopefully it'll be the same with the sparky side of things. I wonder If Bridgend College of Technology still has record of my C&G quals from my 2 years as an apprentice. 28 years ago lol. Didn't finish the course as I didn't want to become an electrician TBH, but did 2 years so should have summat to show for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 1 hour ago, JSHarris said: AFAIK, you need 2391 to do inspection and test, and 2393 for installations in dwellings. If you're confident enough you could do the 1 day Part P (2393) course (you don't need Part P in order to just do inspection and test, that's only needed for installation work) I'll need all 3 elements from the get-go though won't I ? Domestic electrical installation, inspection and testing for eg. Plus I'll need to be a member of a competent installer scheme / body in order to register the installation online? Just trying to work out which way around I go about it. A phone call tomorrow will lift the fog, and in the meantime I need to start revising! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: I wonder If Bridgend College of Technology still has record of my C&G quals from my 2 years as an apprentice. 28 years ago lol. Didn't finish the course as I didn't want to become an electrician TBH, but did 2 years so should have summat to show for it. We tried to track down the hubby's C&G quals (he qualified back in the day) but C&G wanted a search fee IIRC and there was no guarantee that they could find it. Then we read of people who had paid the non refundable fee and got nothing from them other than a 'we can't locate it' reply so we didn't bother. It was only to do the 1st and 2nd fix wiring here anyway and in the end we just had to get someone in to do the EIC. Do you have any mates from back then who still have their certificates? If they can give you a copy it might be easier for C&G to track yours down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said: I'll need all 3 elements from the get-go though won't I ? Domestic electrical installation, inspection and testing for eg. Plus I'll need to be a member of a competent installer scheme / body in order to register the installation online? Just trying to work out which way around I go about it. A phone call tomorrow will lift the fog, and in the meantime I need to start revising! Yes, you need to two qualifications plus membership of one of the accreditation bodies. Not sure if there's much to choose between any of them, although NAPIT were helpful when I rang them up a short time ago. The market around here seems to be dominated by ELECSA and NICEIC, not sure why. 58 minutes ago, newhome said: We tried to track down the hubby's C&G quals (he qualified back in the day) but C&G wanted a search fee IIRC and there was no guarantee that they could find it. Then we read of people who had paid the non refundable fee and got nothing from them other than a 'we can't locate it' reply so we didn't bother. It was only to do the 1st and 2nd fix wiring here anyway and in the end we just had to get someone in to do the EIC. Do you have any mates from back then who still have their certificates? If they can give you a copy it might be easier for C&G to track yours down. C&G lost a load of records, around about the time of the switch from IEE to IET, not sure if it was coincidence or not. I've still got all my paper certificates, but know for sure there are no electronic records from back then (late 1970's). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 14 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: I'll need all 3 elements from the get-go though won't I ? Domestic electrical installation, inspection and testing for eg. Plus I'll need to be a member of a competent installer scheme / body in order to register the installation online? Just trying to work out which way around I go about it. A phone call tomorrow will lift the fog, and in the meantime I need to start revising! & saving! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 It's about £50 per search I've been told! Makes me think I should maybe scan and Dropbox all mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Just now, Onoff said: It's about £50 per search I've been told! Makes me think I should maybe scan and Dropbox all mine. Do it !! No bloody excuse these days (says she with paper certs filed away that have yet to be scanned ..... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 47 minutes ago, newhome said: Do it !! No bloody excuse these days (says she with paper certs filed away that have yet to be scanned ..... ) Handy things paper chits, though. I walked into Screwfix, showed them my ancient C&G teaching papers and they promptly gave me an Electricfix card, so I now get free hot drinks and the occasional doughnut when I go in there, and don't need to queue, as I can use the "trade" counter. Mind you, the discount isn't that great, but then I've tended to use Screwfix for convenience. Their click and collect system seems to always just work, which is more than can be said for some of the others around here (Wickes, for example, are a bloody shambles - half the time they don't have items in stock that they say they have). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 I signed up for Plumbfix using my 30 year old City and Guilds Cerificate that listed plumbing in a long list of stuff I’d done at collage. I also use Plumfix for convenience and they are cheaper than Travis Perkins. I also get coffee and am on first name terms with the staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 The deed has been done. Up front fees paid to NAPIT, after talking to the very helpful chap on the phone. Laid it out bare, zero quals, mostly self taught from the school of hard knocks. 45 mins on the phone and after some questions ( 3 were trick questions I’m sure, designed to separate the wheat from the chaff at the outset ) and my 1st basic competency course is booked. A day and a half first to let me show them I’m not a bell-end hoping to chance his way through, which includes wiring a power and lighting circuit and testing it in front of an examiner and then they’ll give me rights of passage to fast-track my 18th edition. They said I could probably pass the one day, but I opted for the 3 day with the idea being that 3 times more will sink in and for the extra ~£200 for the extra 2 days I think it would sensible to, and possibly arrogant not to. Ill update after the first day and a half. ? Bonjour! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Just remember red wire live, black neutral. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 15 minutes ago, Onoff said: Just remember red wire live, black neutral. My mother taught me to wire a plug when I was just a small boy, and I can still remember her telling me "Red on the Right"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Wiring a plug is a "life skill" not taught any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Just now, JSHarris said: My mother taught me to wire a plug when I was just a small boy, and I can still remember her telling me "Red on the Right"... There's a story goes around about the outgoing head of the IET I think it was. Every year he'd give a blinding speech full of anecdotes and laughs and every year it was different. Before he began he'd unfold what appeared to be the same piece of crumpled paper year after year then launch into it. Upon his retirement somebody asked how he gave such cracking speeches every year and what was on the bit of paper to which he replied "All you need to remember is red wire live, black wire neutral!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, ProDave said: Wiring a plug is a "life skill" not taught any more. It is if your kids are in Scouts! I remember viewing a house I was thinking of buying. I asked to look in the garage, however, it was dusk, so dark in the garage. The owner opening a draw in the kitchen and took out a lead with a plug on each end. He proceeded to plug it into two single sockets locate side-by-side. Hey Presto, we had light in the garage! 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Whenever I look at wiring, the word "blue-tral" (blue = neutral) immediately jumps to mind. It's something I made up years ago to try and remember the colours for live and neutral. Everything else follows directly from that. Funny how effective memory techniques can be. I still have a mental image of a (steel) army truck blowing up, which I used in A-level chemistry as a way of remembering that metallic elements want to give up electrons. I also remembered F=Bqv (force on an electrically charged particle is magnetic field x charge x velocity) because we were doing Macbeth in English at the time, and "Bqv" reminded me of the character Banquo for some reason. Weird how the brain works... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, ProDave said: Wiring a plug is a "life skill" not taught any more. I learnt it at school but haven’t done one for eons as everything comes with a plug these days. The colours have all changed now I think ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, Triassic said: I remember viewing a house I was thinking of buying. I asked to look in the garage, however, it was dusk, so dark in the garage. The owner opening a draw in the kitchen and took out a lead with a plug on each end. He proceeded to plug it into two single sockets locate side-by-side. Hey Presto, we had light in the garage! There's name for leads like this. They are called "Widow Makers", for an obvious reason. Their most common application is to connect a generator to a house, astonishingly dangerous, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 We were made to chant like Japanese factory workers: "Switch off Lock off Signs Test your tester on a proving unit or known source of supply Test for dead Retest your tester on a proving unit or known source of supply" And "CRIPEs Ranulph Fiennes!" was something a lecturer coined for the basic sequence of tests: Continuity Ring final tests Insulation Resistance Polarity Earth Loop Impedance RCD testing Functional testing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 5 hours ago, JSHarris said: There's name for leads like this. They are called "Widow Makers", for an obvious reason. Their most common application is to connect a generator to a house, astonishingly dangerous, really. When my mate was running a big PA and lighting rig we made up 2x 13a plug to 1x 32a C-form splitters to max out the double sockets. Yes, I shudder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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