Smart Plug Recommendations

[Rob99]

When we did our extension and refurb and installed our Loxone system we weren’t able to do much with the existing power sockets so they are mainly still “dumb” sockets. I want to change that by using smart plugs controllable via Loxone but I need quite a lot for all the lamps, appliances I want to control and having a dozen or more of the Loxone Socket Air’s is both expensive and not especially discrete as they are quite bulky.

I'm impressed with the shelly equipment generally but don't like their smart plug design. There seem to be a vast array of smart plugs on the market so thought I'd ask for recommendations.

 

I do have a few requirements though to hopefully narrow the field:

1. Compact "squarish" design (would only consider round if they were very thin)

2. Preferably similar thickness to a standard plug

3. WiFi with IP control (not just an app, as will need to send http commands from Loxone system)

4. Can switch full 13A load

 

Nice to have's would be:

5. If possible the range to include both dimmer and relay variants

6. Light to indicate status

7. Power monitoring (preferably data sent to Loxone)

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[joth]

I'm a fan of anything I can flash esphome onto. This way I can control it from home assistant and from loxone as I like. In practice I use home assistant+esphome as a glorified development environment.

I've written a UDP service for esphome that allows RGBW lightbulbs to be directly controlled by the miniserver. Adding socket relay control to this should be trivial and is on my to-do list. Feeding back the consumption data is not so interesting to me as I prefer to do monitoring and logging in home assistant anyway (that's running on a real computer so no risk of wearing out the SD card through high frequency writing, plus the dashboards and higher level analysis are better there)

 

Specifically, I've found the teckin smart plugs and bulbs on Amazon to be good value, and easy to reflash via tuya-convert. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by joth

[Rob99]

That's an interesting approach as other people have also suggested flashing Teckin plugs with Tasmota.

At the moment I don't have the time to do any major development so was looking for something relatively simple to set up and control with no additional complexity.

Food for thought though.

[MJNewton]

I've been using a few Shelly smart relays and have been really pleased with them (not just the product but the company in general). They don't currently do UK-spec plugs but I'm sure I recall reading that they may become available around Christmas time. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by MJNewton

[Dan F]

10 hours ago, MJNewton said:

I've been using a few Shelly smart relays and have been really pleased with them

 

Interesting.   I was looking at how to do 5A switchable lighting sockets with Loxone and while I'd prefer to wire-in everything there is a fairly signifinnat price different between a Loxone nano relay and a Shelly 2.5, so this might be a good idea.    I think with our external blinds though I'd want to stick to a wired-in relay as it's harder to take things apart later if needed.

 

Where are you using the smart relays?  At the price (£11 for dual relay Shelly 2.5), you could potentially consider putting one in quite a lot of sockets in the house, behind faceplate.  Not too keen on using wi-fi for automation, but truth is that it'll work and if it's only for easily accessible sockets and not heating control or blinds, not a major concern.

 

To me though, it seems there is a gap in the market for a "smart" consumer unit that talks to sockets via "powerline" style communication for switching and consumption monitoring.  Or does something like this exist?

 

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Dan F

[MJNewton]

25 minutes ago, Dan F said:

Where are you using the smart relays?  At the price (£11 for dual relay Shelly 2.5), you could potentially consider putting one in quite a lot of sockets in the house, behind faceplate.

 

I've only got three so far - a 2.5 controlling some patio and garden lights (only really using the sunset timer on it, but it was a cheap way of doing even just that and gives the added benefit of controlling them remotely), a 1PM powering the MVHR (monitoring power consumption and acting on behalf of the smoke alarms to turn the unit off in the event of fire and send me an SMS) and a 1 controlling the boost function of the MVHR (in addition to a few hardwired switches around the house I've got a Pi monitoring everything and triggering boost on rate-of-rise humidity changes and so I figured it'd be easier to bring all the inputs through to a single device which then controls the unit, manages auto-off timers etc).

 

At some point I imagine we'll be getting some of their dimmers for the open plan family room (which has five lighting zones) but am holding off for the time being as we're not a fan of push button dimming, preferring instead the use of rotary controls. The Shelly dimmer doesn't support such inputs but I believe something might be in the pipeline as the GUI hints that it is supported, and if not I may try and roll my own solution with rotary encoders and a suitable interface. I don't want to rush in to spending £100 on five dimmers though if a new(er) model may be required to give me exactly what we're after. 

 

Quote

  Not too keen on using wi-fi for automation, but truth is that it'll work and if it's only for easily accessible sockets and not heating control or blinds, not a major concern.

 

I know what you mean but I thought I'd give it a chance. They've been in over a year now and I've not noticed a single instance of failure, and I've actually been very surprised by the responsiveness eg the time between pressing a button on the app and something happening is pretty much instant - certainly no slower than, say, the responsiveness of changing the TV channel with the remote.

 

There are a few things I particularly like about the Shelly's - they are built to a European design spec (some are also UL certified) which is important to me if burying them within the house, they can work independently of the Internet/cloud if required/desired, their parent company (Allterco Robotics) seem very open and easily accessible and are constantly coming up with new product lines in response to customer feedback which gives me a bit of confidence when committing to one ecosystem of products.

Edited November 13, 2020 by MJNewton

[joth]

For table lights etc why use a relay rather than a smart bulb? The latter has dimming, colour tuning, and (if you care for it) RGB colour change for minimal extra cost.

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by joth

[MJNewton]

1 hour ago, joth said:

For table lights etc why use a relay rather than a smart bulb? The latter has dimming, colour tuning, and (if you care for it) RGB colour change for minimal extra cost.

 

 

For me it was the desire to avoid being trapped within a single ecosytem, and also the dissatisfaction of certain aspects of a particular supplier's offering. I figured that if I can break the system down into smaller component parts I can pick the best-of-breed for each and reap the flexibility of mixing and matching. I know you said table lamps, but I think my thinking stemmed from wondering how best to control the GU10 downlights in the kitchen - there are only five but that was enough to make me think twice about forking out for five smart bulbs, particularly as none of them gave a specific feature that we were keen on ('warm dimming' as per their tungsten cousins). We ended up with bulbs from Ikea - warm dimming and a CRI >90 for only £2.50 each, and conventional (Varilight V-Pro) wall switch dimmers. I should say (admit) I am not ruling out smart bulbs though - more just finding my way around without committing too soon.

Edited November 13, 2020 by MJNewton

[joth]

1 hour ago, MJNewton said:

For me it was the desire to avoid being trapped within a single ecosytem, and also the dissatisfaction of certain aspects of a particular supplier's offering.

 

Definitely agree. This is why I'm such a fan of ESPHome (and I expect Tasmota users feel the same).

 

1 hour ago, MJNewton said:

my thinking stemmed from wondering how best to control the GU10 downlights in the kitchen

Also agree. all my primary lighting is wired (60 dimmed channels it turns out! how did that happen).  it's only the 'portable' lighting that I'd consider using a wireless solution for. (And for that reason decided against any 5A outlets)

 

 

 

[MJNewton]

5 minutes ago, joth said:

it's only the 'portable' lighting that I'd consider using a wireless solution for. (And for that reason decided against any 5A outlets)

 

Now I *did* go for 5A outlets, but in every location there's a double 13A socket too so at worst they'd only become redundant. I've always been a fan of them pre smart lighting (we don't tend to go for room (ceiling) lights anymore), and I'm always mindful of the potential need to go back to that method of control one day... whether that's due to us selling up or - more likely perhaps - the wife not wishing to adapt to a complex, convoluted and sometimes uncertain method of 'just turning a bloody light on!'!... ?

Edited November 13, 2020 by MJNewton

[Thorfun]

10 minutes ago, joth said:

it's only the 'portable' lighting that I'd consider using a wireless solution for. (And for that reason decided against any 5A outlets)

this surprises me.

 

as I work through the lighting design we're using a few table lamps/floor lamps to add ambient lighting. I'm thinking about using 5A outlets wired back to our home automation system (looking like Loxone at the moment) so that they can be controlled automatically as we enter the room.

 

I'm surprised you didn't go this route especially when you already have the Loxone system in place.

[joth]

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

this surprises me.

 

as I work through the lighting design we're using a few table lamps/floor lamps to add ambient lighting. I'm thinking about using 5A outlets wired back to our home automation system (looking like Loxone at the moment) so that they can be controlled automatically as we enter the room.

 

I'm surprised you didn't go this route especially when you already have the Loxone system in place.

 

Our lighting designer was so focused* on getting all the fixed-location lighting correct she really didn't think there was any point designing or planning for portable lighting too. So odds are, any we do add will be because of changing needs or something we totally overlooked, and by definition will then also failed to put the 5A socket in a useful location for it and I knew it would double stress me out planning location of those sockets and then beating myself up when I inevitably got it wrong. We have a perfectly good ring main with many outlets in every possible useful location anyway, so my thought is to rely on that for "unforeseen" lighting needs. I can control the wifi bulbs perfectly well from Loxone. For the so-called WAF, this means the table lamps can be controlled in exactly the same way as it would be via a 5A outlet, that is to say the same as all the other lights in a room: from the light switch. Or automated from motion, or from an app or by Alexa if that's your thing. But if that's too complex, they can also be controlled from a button on the table lamp too (if needed, by using a dumb bulb plugged into a dumb mains outlet via a dumb switch - I'm sure desk task lighting will still use this method!)  so investing in 5A sockets is strictly reducing not adding to the flexibility in control.  In my experience of renting out then selling my previous house, no one understood or valued the various dimmed 5A outlets I put in, so installing them for future occupiers / resale value is not of interest to me.

 

This is all just to explain the thought process I went through to reach the conclusions I reached, not to try and persuade anyone else they're wrong. If you find 5A outlets useful, more power* to you :-)

 

 

* - puns intended

Edited November 13, 2020 by joth

[MJNewton]

I must admit, I've often found myself explaining to people why there are 'really old fashioned plug sockets' in my 'new build' house! Even once I've explained I think they still go away wondering if I really know what I'm doing... 

[Dan F]

@Rob99 What did you use in the end?

[Rob99]

I ended up with a smart plug from local bytes which comes pre-flashed with Tasmota and controllable through Loxone virtual commands.

 

Works fine for switching things on and off but haven't yet been able to get the power monitoring data into Loxone, although haven't really had much time to investigate.

 

I also like the fact it has a button on the side to operate the relay manually which can be more convenient when I'm standing next to it than using the Loxone app.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Rob99

[Temp]

Reopening this thread..

 

There are now numerous cheap smart plugs on Amazon from around £6 each. I'm looking for a set to do energy monitoring but the few I've looked at seem to come with proprietary apps that seem incapable of adding up the power used/being used from multiple appliances. They only display seperate graphs for each according to reviews.

 

In one case someone complained the usage data was only logged when the phone running the app was available to collect it. Eg not when they went to work! When they returned home the usage data wasn't updated and appeard to be lost.

 

Is there a make that works with Alexa, and has an Android App that you would recommend?

 

I'm not really looking for another "project" so ideally fairly simple to set up. I don't have an existing home automation system just Alexa.

 

Edit: I suppose it would be cool if there was also a clamp on smart meter in the same range so I can see the difference between what the smart plugs are reporting and what the whole house consumption is at the meter.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Temp

[Radian]

It's tantalising to be sure, but I'm afraid the functionality you'd like is currently only available if you're prepared to roll up sleeves and do some tinkering. Tantalising because the £10 smart sockets are very capable indeed - I have several giving me accurate power readings with 1 second granularity into my own database (not a Chinese cloud) and they account for real power (unlike inexpensive clamp meters) and also respond to Alexa. The logging you're going to get from a free cloud based system will be very coarse indeed and may be shut down at any time.

 

edit Rob99's link was dead. Here its is revived

https://www.mylocalbytes.com/products/smart-plug-pm

Edited August 28, 2022 by Radian

[Temp]

Think I might live dangerously for awhile. Then if I fancy another project I've seen suggestions to flash them with Tasmota but I've not looked at what's involved.

 

 

 

[Radian]

Not sure what you mean when you say:

 

8 hours ago, Temp said:

Think I might live dangerously for awhile.

 

I can only think of 'flying blind' and not knowing what energy things are using 😃

 

Just to make sure you know that the https://www.mylocalbytes.com/products/smart-plug-pm is pre-flashed with Tasmota. This is quite a big deal as I've been buying the same looking thing for £12 then cracking it open, de-soldering the ESP8266 from the main PCB and hooking it up to an RS232-USB lead before putting it all back together with polypipe weld. Having done four all ready, I'm definitely going shopping for these next time.

 

I guess it may be the rest of the process to log the data somewhere that's 'the project'. Probably the path of least resistance is setting up a Raspberry Pi with MQTT and Node Red (plenty of easy step-by-step tuts on this) which would give you a jump-off point to a database and some DIY automation. However, Node Red can easily plot the data in the first instance.

[SteamyTea]

6 minutes ago, Radian said:

Probably the path of least resistance is setting up a Raspberry Pi with MQTT and Node Red (plenty of easy step-by-step tuts on this) which would give you a jump-off point to a database and some DIY automation. However, Node Red can easily plot the data in the first instance.

I just write code to save data as a *.csv file, then look/analysis it in a spreadsheet.

Usually access the RPi with Win SCP.

[joth]

13 minutes ago, Radian said:

Just to make sure you know that the https://www.mylocalbytes.com/products/smart-plug-pm is pre-flashed with Tasmota. This is quite a big deal as I've been buying the same looking thing for £12 then cracking it open, de-soldering the ESP8266 from the main PCB and hooking it up to an RS232-USB lead before putting it all back together with polypipe weld. Having done four all ready, I'm definitely going shopping for these next time.

Good to know. I've been buying very similar looking plugs under the 2Nice or teckin brands and using tuya-convert over WiFi, never had to physically open one up.

 

Looks like Gosund is the going name for them now:

 

https://www.esphome-devices.com/devices/Gosund-UP111

 

 

About the Local Bytes preflashed ones, do they have a voltage/power calibration curve preset or do you still need to do this per device? This was the most tedious thing I found about putting custom firmware onto them: each device needed it's own calibration as the tolerances between them are wide enough the readings were way out if trying to use a default configuration. I expect they have calibration numbers flashes into them on the manufacturing line but replacing the firmware overwrites it.

Edited August 29, 2022 by joth

[Rob99]

56 minutes ago, joth said:

About the Local Bytes preflashed ones, do they have a voltage/power calibration curve preset or do you still need to do this per device?

Drop Adam (the owner of LocalBytes) an email on adam@mylocalbytes.com and i'm sure he'll be able to answer any technical questions

[Radian]

58 minutes ago, joth said:

Good to know. I've been buying very similar looking plugs under the 2Nice or teckin brands and using tuya-convert over WiFi, never had to physically open one up.

Were those purchased recently? Tuya have been busy releasing patches that hobbled tuya-convert. The first one I got off Amazon wouldn't flash with errors showing up in smarthack-psk.log so I just took the nuclear option.

 

I doubt that the preflashed ones come ready calibrated but it's simple enough if you don't have lots to do.

[Temp]

15 hours ago, Radian said:

 

I can only think of 'flying blind' and not knowing what energy things are using 😃

 

I meant trusting a Chinese cloud.

 

14 hours ago, joth said:

 

Looks like Gosund is the going name for them now:

 

I've literally just taken delivery of two of their plugs. The gosund app looks like it might be a badged version of Smart Life but it's 23:46 and I've driven 6 hours and drunk two bottles of Doombar 🙂

 

[Temp]

Tip: I couldn't get the Gosund app set up the plugs until I turned off my VPN. Once set up they seem to work with the VPN back on.