car charging points

[LSB]

As part of our planning approval we must have 2 car charging points before completion.

Even though we have zero chance of affording an electric car by the time we have paid for the build.

Do these have to have independent wires with their own trip switch, can they both go on the same wire and do they have to be independent of the building rather than attached to the outside wall of the dwelling.

 

[Conor]

Each should be on their own 32amp supply coming from the consumer unit. Do you actually need to install them or just have provision for them? Who's going to be checking that you've installed them?!

[LSB]

2 minutes ago, Conor said:

Each should be on their own 32amp supply coming from the consumer unit. Do you actually need to install them or just have provision for them? Who's going to be checking that you've installed them?!

It hasn't really occurred to me that they might not be checked, but if it has to be done at some point then I certainly want to install wires so that we don't have to do any more digging in the future.

We are planning to have a cart lodge and I would like to have it there, but that won't be until we have recovered some money after the build.

Thanks for your prompt reply.

At least the bike locks are simpler to install.

The other thing I want is a sensor when a vehicle enters the driveway as the road is 120m from the house.

 

[Moonshine]

29 minutes ago, Conor said:

Each should be on their own 32amp supply coming from the consumer unit.

 

That is good to know that it needs to be 32amp, does the consumer unit need to be up spec'ed to deal with that ampage?

 

i am planning to have a spur installed on the inside of the garage but not actually install the charger.

 

If we do ever install one, then it can be mounted on the wall and a whole drilled through the wall for the cable.

[Conor]

26 minutes ago, Moonshine said:

 

That is good to know that it needs to be 32amp, does the consumer unit need to be up spec'ed to deal with that ampage?

 

i am planning to have a spur installed on the inside of the garage but not actually install the charger.

 

If we do ever install one, then it can be mounted on the wall and a whole drilled through the wall for the cable.

 

Think I've exhausted my limited knowledge so going to shut up!

Edited October 14, 2020 by Conor

[PeterW]

You shouldn’t run them from the CU - split them onto their own consumer units as close to the meter head as possible. Standard CU is not designed to take a full 32A for 5-6 hours continuously. 
 

Ideally you should put an isolator in at the meter and then run each off on its own sub main from the henleys. 

[Nickfromwales]

42 minutes ago, PeterW said:

You shouldn’t run them from the CU - split them onto their own consumer units as close to the meter head as possible. Standard CU is not designed to take a full 32A for 5-6 hours continuously. 

Especially not 2 of them !

 

42 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Ideally you should put an isolator in at the meter and then run each off on its own sub main from the henleys. 

We have put them in 'CU#2' in a garage with the 2 x 32a breakers spaced with blanks if there is any further significant loads in the line up.

 

1 hour ago, LSB said:

It hasn't really occurred to me that they might not be checked, but if it has to be done at some point then I certainly want to install wires so that we don't have to do any more digging in the future.

They're not cheap so just run the cables for now and fingers crossed. That would be far better AFAIC as if you don't intend to buy an EV for some time then there may be a chance that a charger you fit now in anticipation may be obsolete / unsuitable in 5-10 years time anyway. 

[LSB]

13 hours ago, PeterW said:

You shouldn’t run them from the CU - split them onto their own consumer units as close to the meter head as possible. Standard CU is not designed to take a full 32A for 5-6 hours continuously. 
 

Ideally you should put an isolator in at the meter and then run each off on its own sub main from the henleys. 

We are having 3 phase electricity, as we do now, will it be sensible to leave a phase just for these.

[LSB]

12 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Especially not 2 of them !

 

We have put them in 'CU#2' in a garage with the 2 x 32a breakers spaced with blanks if there is any further significant loads in the line up.

 

They're not cheap so just run the cables for now and fingers crossed. That would be far better AFAIC as if you don't intend to buy an EV for some time then there may be a chance that a charger you fit now in anticipation may be obsolete / unsuitable in 5-10 years time anyway. 

I guess the charger technology is going to change quite a lot in the future as the government will start pushing this more and more.

I run a gas guzzling diesel twin cab pickup as I tow my horse trailer a lot. I'm already thinking that if this has to be done by an electric vehicle I will only get to the end of the road, and heaven forbid I have to go up a long steep hill.

 

[PeterW]

7 minutes ago, LSB said:

We are having 3 phase electricity, as we do now, will it be sensible to leave a phase just for these.

Yes that would make a lot of sense. Run the 3rd phase off to a separate location. 
 

5 minutes ago, LSB said:

.

I run a gas guzzling diesel twin cab pickup as I tow my horse trailer a lot. I'm already thinking that if this has to be done by an electric vehicle I will only get to the end of the road, and heaven forbid I have to go up a long steep hill

You will struggle with more than a single horse box. Capacity on even the biggest PHEV Range Rovers is limited to 2500kg with 150kg nose weight so anything like twin or triple axle EquiTrak boxes with 2 horses is likely to trip over that limit. 

[LSB]

1 minute ago, PeterW said:

Yes that would make a lot of sense. Run the 3rd phase off to a separate location. 
 

You will struggle with more than a single horse box. Capacity on even the biggest PHEV Range Rovers is limited to 2500kg with 150kg nose weight so anything like twin or triple axle EquiTrak boxes with 2 horses is likely to trip over that limit. 

Then I will have to keep the 'beast' until it dies as I take 2 most of the time.
Then I guess it will have to be a full box, but I don't like those as they are not hugely reliable when not used a lot.

I don't have the budget for anything new.

But, I'm not unique by any means, so I guess the manufacturers will come up with options by the time it is essential in 2030, I am unlikely to be going off by then anyway as I will be even older than I am now.

 

[Nickfromwales]

Run a 3-phase cable to one charger and a single phase cable to the other. If 3-ph is available then you can bet your arse that 3-phase fast charging will be the top dog. 
EV horse boxes will be about with BiPV panels and their own battery packs in the future. So will hover boards, and hindsight.  

[Thorfun]

4 hours ago, LSB said:

Then I will have to keep the 'beast' until it dies as I take 2 most of the time.
Then I guess it will have to be a full box, but I don't like those as they are not hugely reliable when not used a lot.

I don't have the budget for anything new.

But, I'm not unique by any means, so I guess the manufacturers will come up with options by the time it is essential in 2030, I am unlikely to be going off by then anyway as I will be even older than I am now.

 

think this should have you covered.

 

https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/cybertruck

[LSB]

23 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

think this should have you covered.

 

https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/cybertruck

and yet they don't have a price, pretty ugly in my opinion as well.

but, it will do the business

 

[Thorfun]

3 minutes ago, LSB said:

and yet they don't have a price, pretty ugly in my opinion as well.

but, it will do the business

 

looks or cost weren't mentioned in the discussion, just that there wasn't anything that would do the job. I was just pointing out that there could be something that would work not too far away. ?

 

btw, I love the looks of it (and yet don't at the same time!). it's definitely a bold move by Tesla and, as usual, they don't conform to 'standard' ideas.

[Ferdinand]

An interesting little video about towing a double horsebox (2 tons ish) with a Model X. USA so using air conditioning for the first half. Cut and paste of fuel consumption screen below.

 

It tows but the energy consumption suffers more than a little.

 

 

 

F

[Thorfun]

but 42.28 mpg is still better than a 'gas guzzling diesel' twin cab, right? and when you're not towing you get that lovely electric drive that just can't be beaten. ?

 

and also doing your bit for the planet at the same time! win-win in my  books.

[Ferdinand]

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

but 42.28 mpg is still better than a 'gas guzzling diesel' twin cab, right? and when you're not towing you get that lovely electric drive that just can't be beaten. ?

 

and also doing your bit for the planet at the same time! win-win in my  books.

 

The other minor issue is that they report it was taking 1% of battery capacity per mile of journey.

 

And after they realised it would not reach home and turned on econo-max it still had a Max range of around 125 miles with the horsebox in tow.

 

So the current solution would be to take the Tesla, but make like Roy Rogers for the rest of the journey when it ran out of batteries. ?

 

Another few years yet. I’m another one that is waiting.

[eandg]

We'll be putting in provision for a future charger - had planned on just burying some suitable cabling in an appropriate place in the drive as we've no garage. Any advice?

[LSB]

3 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

An interesting little video about towing a double horsebox (2 tons ish) with a Model X. USA so using air conditioning for the first half. Cut and paste of fuel consumption screen below.

 

It tows but the energy consumption suffers more than a little.

 

 

 

F

thanks for this.

 

[LSB]

2 hours ago, Thorfun said:

but 42.28 mpg is still better than a 'gas guzzling diesel' twin cab, right? and when you're not towing you get that lovely electric drive that just can't be beaten. ?

 

and also doing your bit for the planet at the same time! win-win in my  books.

very much so, but I would like to point out that I do less than 2k a year in it, my other car (well hubbys) is much smaller and more economical for commuting, which I only do 2 days per week as I work from home the rest of the time.
Living in the back of beyond doesn't make for a lot of planet friendliness, no buses, trains, too far to cycle / walk unless just going out for fun.

But, the barn conversion will be different, ASHP, PV, rainwater harvesting and maybe even a windmill, certainly in the future.

[LSB]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

 

The other minor issue is that they report it was taking 1% of battery capacity per mile of journey.

 

And after they realised it would not reach home and turned on econo-max it still had a Max range of around 125 miles with the horsebox in tow.

 

So the current solution would be to take the Tesla, but make like Roy Rogers for the rest of the journey when it ran out of batteries. ?

 

Another few years yet. I’m another one that is waiting.

so, you are suggesting getting the horses to tow the car & trailer ??

[LSB]

13 minutes ago, eandg said:

We'll be putting in provision for a future charger - had planned on just burying some suitable cabling in an appropriate place in the drive as we've no garage. Any advice?

I can't advise as I'm just learning myself, HID says 'what another trench' through concrete, which we were initially planning to touch.

[Nickfromwales]

30 minutes ago, eandg said:

We'll be putting in provision for a future charger - had planned on just burying some suitable cabling in an appropriate place in the drive as we've no garage. Any advice?

Run ducts and pull cables in later if possible. If you pull cables in now you'll need to run 10mm2 to be sure you have sufficient capacity. Also you'll need to run the duct / cables to where you can glean, retrospectively, the required amount of current. This is usually from the meter, or cutting into the CU tails at the CU.

Thought, and proper planning required here  

[eandg]

11 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Run ducts and pull cables in later if possible. If you pull cables in now you'll need to run 10mm2 to be sure you have sufficient capacity. Also you'll need to run the duct / cables to where you can glean, retrospectively, the required amount of current. This is usually from the meter, or cutting into the CU tails at the CU.

Thought, and proper planning required here  

Thanks - will speak to the electrician about it.